#Election Day Narcosis
13 messages in this thread
He refused, as is his prerogotive (gee, now who is an example of poor
education? <g>) but I think he wouldn't have gotten the job anyway. And
the idea of welfare is to help people survive. If welfare provides 60% of
a living wage, and the only available job pays 45% of a living wage, your
solution is to lower welfare benefits? What about making more jobs
available? What about improving subsidies?
Paul – wearing my black construction paper funeral suit
You go out and work … 2 jobs, 3 jobs, if need be. You create your own if
necessary … mow yards, shovel snow, pick up trash … whatever it takes. No
one owes you anything. If you don't have the self respect to help yourself I
sure have no desire to help.
You see, I came from a background of a single mother who got pregnant when she
was 15. She didn't rely on anyone other than herself to earn a living, finish
high school, go to college, get a masters, and provide a home and private
school education for me. I have little to no patience for people who believe
they're owed something. You either do it, or sell pencils on the street
corner. Don't expect others to do it for you.
Your belief that everyone can support themselves if they only work hard
enough and aren't too lazy doesn't account for fluctuations in the economy
except as allowing more or less luxury.
Paul – wearing my black construction paper funeral suit
Paul,
If you want to work, have to work, you will work. It has nothing to do about
being "too lazy" … you can't afford to be lazy.
You do it or you don't. If someone is "too good" or "too proud" or "too lazy"
they should be introduced to Charles Darwin or beg at a some charitable
organization.
Steve-
So you're saying that no matter how bad the economy, everyone can work
if they'll just be diligent enough in searching for a job and humble
enough to accept it when they find it? If this is what you mean, I
disagree. Charles Darwin also understood that no matter how good and well
designed an organism, it can fail if circumstances change sufficiently.
If you take a small town as an example, there are a fairly clearly
definable number of job opportunities. Sure, there might be room for a
couple people to make their own niche, so to speak, by offering services
to people that weren't previously available commercially, but this can't
support too many people, and if times are bad enough people won't spend
that extra money to have their whatever taken care of by someone else, no
matter how cheap it is.
And plenty of people start small businesses. Some fail because they're
poorly run or poorly conceived, some fail because government regulation is
too burdensome, and some fail because there just isn't room for what they
provide. As I understand it, your suggestion that people make their own
work by providing cheap services to people amounts to suggesting that they
become very limited, small-scale enterpreneurs by starting a very small
business. That's a very nice idea, but it can't work for that many
people.
But someone in a small town can move out. But what if conditions are
so bad nationally that millions upon millions of people in all walks of
life are out of work, and there are very few jobs to be had – as during
the Carter years. The more people there are unemployed, the tougher times
are, and the tougher times are, the less discretionary cash employed
people have as a rule. So what you're suggesting, it seems to me, breaks
down in times of economic stress. As the number of people who could
afford cheap services offered by the unemployed shrinks, and as the
discretionary cash of those people shrinks, the number of people they can
support through purchasing small-scale enterpreneurial services shrink.
Paul – wearing my black construction paper funeral suit
Paul,
There has never been a time in your lifetime where there was not work to be
had. the last time the unemployment figures even got above 10% was during the
Carter administration. During the depression it was only at 30%.
If someone refuses to work they don't deserve government help. Right now
junkies and drunks get monthly checks under ADA. That is repugnant. They are
being rewarded and their activity reinforced for a self inflicted disease.
Unwed mothers keep popping out the kids because the more they do the money they
get. It's time for it to stop.
Well, during the depression, there were a WHOLE lot of folks who could not get
a job. Those that did not have a job, tended to make their own jobs. My father
and his family did odd jobs for money and/or food. They also grew a lot of
their own veggies, kept a few chickens, and boght/smoked/sold herring, and a
good proportion of their regular meat happened to be herring as well.
One other thing they did, that probably would not happen as much today, was to
help others in the same situation. They helped their neighbours whenever they
could, and though he didn't say so, I bet that a neighbour who sat by and
watched others work, would not get any help.
What if the economy is bad? What is there are no jobs? How does this create a
moral justification for you to steal from me for the benefit of someone that I
don't know?
-larry
Paul,
I have yet to see a time when there are no jobs or other legal methods
of making money available for anyone who asks.
That's the problem…you've got to ask. you've got to look, knock on
doors, walk up and down the neighborhood and ask for work. You'll get a lot of
doors slammed in your face…but a few will open up.
The trick to making money…is that you have to be willing to do
whatever to start out.
Don
Don-
There may be a certain number of jobs out there, but that doesn't mean
there are enough for all able-bodied potential workers.
And again and again I ask What about the children?
Paul – wearing my black construction paper funeral suit
Paul,
You know…as more people get jobs and more income…more goods need to
be manufactured…which will create more jobs. Also, as more people come off
welfare (by getting a job)…welfare money is freed up for other uses…which
will also generate more jobs.
And what about the children? If the parents are eating…one would
presume they'd feed their kids also.
Or are you talking about day care for the kids? That's easy…that in
and of itself will create some jobs. Someone will have to watch the kids and
they'll get paid.
Don
Don-
If there was good day care available cheap or free, along with food,
and possibly medical care, it would be much easier for poor mothers to
work. I'm all for public day care… except that it probably costs a
bundle, which may make it infeasible in practice and certainly does in
today's environment.
Paul – wearing my black construction paper funeral suit
Paul,
Why public day care? How about 'collective' day care. 6 moms get
together…5 get jobs, the 6th watches the kid…and the other 5 pay for it.
Why the heck should I pay for day care for them? The whole idea behind
this is to get people to pay their own way.
Don
What Steve's belief doesn't account for is the intereference of the government.
Get the government OUT of business (and KEEP it out).