#Kickstart in ROM
24 messages in this thread
Here's some info on a product that may be of interest to some of the
forum members.
Creative Microsystems of Tigard, Ore. (the same design team that put
together the aMEGA board and SCSI interface for C Ltd.) has designed a internal
hardware mod that puts Kickstart (1.2) in ROM and frees up the Writeable
Control Store as 256K (non-autoconfigured) fast RAM.
The cost of the mod is about $140 (those chips are fairly pricey) which
is not bad, I suppose, if you add up the cost of additional RAM plus the faster
boot-up time with KS in ROM.
I don't have it myself, so I can't personally give any report on its
performance. I do have faith in the guys at Creative Microsystems, though, so I
tend to trust the design and reliability of their products.
Bob L.
I think an address and a phone number would be useful here —
Never heard of them, myself… With prices for an (autoconfigure)
megabyte at <$600.00 (much less, on the street) <200.00 for 256
*and* a faster boot seems reasonable. Of course, you couldn't run
1.1 anymore — which, considering how many things don't work
correctly with 1.2, just might not be too good an idea… –Ben–
Ben, how about a board with both 1.1 and 1.2 KickStarts in ROM, with a switch
to select between them? Anyone want to design one of those? – Bela
Actually, it seems to me someone told me that he was installing just
such a switch that would allow use of either ROM or WCS Kickstart. But in my
increasing senility, I can't remember where I read it. Coulda been here.
Anyway, BEN, the Creative Microsystems guys (as I noted in the previous
message) are the hardware/software design team that has done C Ltd.'s Amiga
products, so far: the aMEGA board and the C ltd SCSI interface. They've just
decided to go out on their own with some products.
This KS in ROM thing requires some soldering, etc. inside the Amiga so
CMS is trying to get dealers to sell the hardware and the installation as a
package. They are willing to do it, too, on a mail order basis but they are
making no bones about the fact that they would rather not do the installations.
Soooo, they are charging enough for it to discourage people from asking (I
think that's $50 or more).
Anyway, the pertinent info on Creative Microsystems is;
Creative Microsystems
10110 S.W. Nimbus
Tigard, OR 97223
(503) 684-9300
Best, Bob L.
Ah, yes, even better — ROM or WCS, so you can run >anything<. I hope that, if
you're using the ROM, it can use the WCS as extra fast RAM. I don't know
hardware well enough to know hard that would be to implement (PALs?)… –
Bela
Oh, don't get the wrong idea. As far as I know the Creative Microsystems mod
is final. You get KS in ROM and, yes, the other 256K configures as Fast RAM
(but doesn't autoconfigure).
I have a friend who got one last week. As I get more info on its performance
I'll post another message.
Bob L.
Bob, I have been wondering why someone hasn't ROMed this stuff. It's no big
deal to update an EPROM and a smart company would offer the update service real
cheap. In fact, it is probably possible for anyone (with a cheap EPROM burner
to do it). Over on the CoCo Sig we all had cuatom operating systems in ROM
prepped by the members. It's no problem and one EPROM can be used 4 or 5 times
and it will either verify or not so you don't have any worries about it going
out while in service. At this time I have an EPROM in my CoCo that has been
reburned 3 times and is still goin' strong..Dave
Realize, of course, that you're talking about 4 512K EPROMs, which go for about
$30 a piece in large quantities. That's a far cry from the single 64K or 128K
EPROM a machine like a CoCo's likely to require (just a guess here on the size,
really). Of course, if CBM were to distribute these on ROM, the cost would be
quite a bit less. -Dave
Yeah, do you know what the chip designation is? Got to find out…Dave
The EPROMs are just standard 27512 EPROMs. Though I think you'll need to come
up with a different set of PALs to run ROMs instead of the WCS RAM. -Dave
Hmmm, well, let me do some lookin' and I'll let you know how I do…Dave
Davey,
EPROMS can be reprogrammed a lot more than 4 or 5 times. I have a few around
here that must have been burned a hundred times, as they happen to be "quick"
burning ones, and are useful for burning and quick testing stuff that will not
run in RAM.
There is a bit of a problem though. It will require 4 27256's to do it, and
they are not cheap.
Regards, Larry.
Larry, I know they can be burned more often but I was purposely being VERY
conservative. I'll check my sources for these chips and let you know…Dave
BTW, do you know anything about the need for new PALs to run the ROMs?…Dave
Not really Davey. I think Hazy would know a lot about the PAL thing. I have
just started learning about them, having finally become convinced that they
really are good for something after all these years.
Regards, Larry.
Well amybe we can get something going here, I'm a big ROM fan…Dave
oops.. that were "27512's"
Larry, talking to yourself again?
Bri
That's EIGHT (8) 27256 parts! The KickStart code requires 256 Bytes of memory,
organized as 128K x 16. A 27256 EPROM is 32K x 8. I think the sockets are
expecting 4 27512s, at 64K x 8 a piece, which are even less cheap. -Dave
I wasn't thinking that the Creative Microsystems board was going to offer all
that… just extrapolating the possibilities, hoping some hardware hacker would
take on the idea. Which appears to be happening… – Bela
That's so simple, it isn't worth a board — just piggyback the roms
and play some silly games with the output enable lines or equiv.
I got a prom burner — I got also the required kicks; what I DON'T
have is the time to figure out the WCS and it's perversities. I
suppose it wouldn't be too rough tho — any hardware mavens want to
take acrack at it? You design the mod, make SURE it works, and I'll
CAD up a board (just happen to have the appropriate software, can you
imagine?)… then we'll see if some of these enterprising types here
want to make a bunch. There's the bait… Well? –Ben–
Ben, what EPROM do we need?…Dave
I dunno… whatever it is, I can program it; I'm not into the
hardware — that's why the suggestion that a hardware maven get
into the act. –Ben–
Ok, I'll do some research…Dave