CompuServe Thread

#Needs help

21 messages in this thread
#3691From: STEVE WAGHDec 7, 1988 6:03 PM
Bill, at this point it doesn't have an Arexx interface? How important is that?
#3698From: Steve AhlstromDec 7, 1988 7:21 PM
It's so important, that I, and many others, would not consider buying it without the interface. I have Word Perfect and ProWrite and do not use either in favor of CEDPro (which has an ARexx interface).
#3722From: STEVE WAGHDec 8, 1988 3:16 PM
Steve, what does ARexx do for you when using a word processor, or any other product for that matter?
#3726From: Steve AhlstromDec 8, 1988 3:38 PM
It allows any program with an ARexx interface to talk to (and control) any other program with an ARexx interface. I'm using some very powerful sub-programs with CEDPro. CEDPro makes the call to my ARexx program which then, via the ARexx port, takes control of CEDPro and performs various functions that are more sophisticated than CEDPro's own macros would allow.
#3701From: RON TROYDec 7, 1988 10:15 PM
Steve, an arexx interface is a definite plus. It allows one to integrate different programs to create new functions, allows you to be able to 'reprogram' an existing product – for instance, I set up the keypad layout I prefer to use in an editor (assuming its a good interface).
#3723From: STEVE WAGHDec 8, 1988 3:19 PM
Ron, most of our products are oriented towards the non-technical user -the person who does not know how nor wants to know how to "reprogram" anything. With that assumption, will ARexx still be a benefit?
#3730From: RON TROYDec 8, 1988 6:19 PM
It allows one to make the product much more powerful as one gains more technical expertise. I find it very frustrating not to have abilities like keyboard (re)designation – I like to customize a product so that I don't have to learn umpteen different interfaces, especially for actions I often take. For instance, I'm used to using a certain numeric keypad key sequence (gold + another key) to first do a search, and just that key to do a repeat search. Some people here on the forums do much more sophisticated work. What's even better is that people upload their rexx procedures, so others don't have to be highly technical to use rexx. So, yes, it will be a benefit.
#3735From: microsmithsDec 8, 1988 7:57 PM
Steve – though it may require a bit of work by the user, if you provide AREXX capability it will allow your Word Processer to work as if it is a part of an integrated package – as if it were a "Word Processing" module. It may require more cleverness and experience from the programmers to figure out how to make this easy for users, but it's definitely the way of the future, I think – even for users who don't know what a CLI is. …cheath
#3742From: John DraperDec 8, 1988 9:09 PM
It really depends on the implementation of the ARexx interface itself. A good implementation will allow an ARexx script (or another program that can send the same sort of messages), to do pretty nearly anything that can be done from the keyboard or mouse. While many (possibly most) purchasers wil never write an original ARexx script to make use of your interface, there are many who will, and will provide thse to others on a PD basis. Once a user sees the power of the combination, and has a working script that does something useful, he is likely to start modifying it to better suit himself. I use CEDPro for all my text editing work, and have written several very useful ARexx scripts for it. As an example, I have written one called 'delfile' that lets me delete a file that I have in a CEDPro window. It's a simple little thing, but the saving in keystrokes over the same function done from a CLI is enormous (CD to the directory, TYPE the file, decide if I want to delete, DELETE file). Others I have written make life very easy when reading Usenet postings; 'keep' a message, delete a message, answer a posting, etc. Some folks use a combination of TxEd and AmigaTeX as a TeX processor, editing the file in TxEd, and simply using a function key or menu selection to save the file and call the TeX previewer to see what it looks like. Quitting from AmigaTeX brings back TxEd for any changes needed. I don't thinkit takes too much imagination to be able to visualize ways in which a word processor could work a lot of magic when tied in closely to DTP packages, databases, mailmerge programs, and so on. In addition, you must always bear in mind that no matter how many features you provide in a program, no matter how many other programs you allow it to interact with, there will always be applications that you never dreamed would be of use to someone. With an Arexx interface, you let the use decide what application he wants to build using your program as one module.
#3748From: Betty Clay/SYSOPDec 8, 1988 10:26 PM
The AREXX scripts are already being posted as PD things. There is a library for AREXX over in AmigaTech. Up to now, most of the scripts are working between editors and other programs, but as more of the programmers use AREXX, and as the commercial software adds these ports, the scripts will become available. Unsophisticated users will be able to get them through the regular PD channels. ALo, they'd make nice little additi9s to put in your package.
#3711From: Betty Clay/SYSOPDec 8, 1988 9:56 AM
I believe that AREXX is to be very, very important to Amiga software in the future. Many of the better packages are being released with it now, and Commodore is thinking of adding either the real AREXX or else something similar to 1.4. (The latter from hearsay, not announcement.) Anyway, most people who know anything about AREXX want every piece of software to have it. It gives you a scripting ability that lets all programs work together like integrated packages. We are already beginning to see AREXX scripts appear that make specific programs do marvelous things. Please look into it.
#3725From: STEVE WAGHDec 8, 1988 3:26 PM
Betty, can you give me examples or names of current products that support ARexx today. This would help us decide if "integration" makes sense.
#3804From: SyndesisDec 10, 1988 7:09 PM
PenPal is supposed to be a novice's word processor, right? I don't think most novices use ARexx. Programmers may value ARexx, but beyond that… I wouldn't hold up production to add ARexx.
#3867From: Betty Clay/SYSOPDec 12, 1988 10:43 AM
John, whether it is worth holding up production for is not in my bailiwick. However, Steve has described this program as being easy enough for novices, but with enough power to meet the needs of most average users. At this point, I think putting out a new program without an AREXX port is a bit shortsighted. Of course, it could be added in an upgrade or something AREXX scripts are already showing up on the BBSs and also here. I think we will see more and more of them, and that even novice users will be able to use AREXX without writing any programs in it at all.
#3910From: SyndesisDec 13, 1988 5:37 PM
I'm sure B-W has gone to great lengths to "position" this word processor. I certainly hope Steve isn't swayed. It makes little sense to me to worry about ARexx in a product that won't be used by people who want a "hotdog" editor. Is anyone out there using ProWrite for writing C programs? Does Steve intend his program to go head to head with Cygnus Ed? I own ARexx. I use it. I use Cygnus Ed, too. Am I crazy to think that it is not necessary to add ARexx ports to every application?
#3917From: STEVE WAGHDec 13, 1988 7:38 PM
#3924From: Betty Clay/SYSOPDec 13, 1988 10:22 PM
Use the RM Function to read these messages.
#3934From: Steve AhlstromDec 14, 1988 12:30 AM
I'm sorry, but I think you're out of touch with the 'typical' user. The #1 selling Amiga title for 1988 at my dealer is 1.3 — followed VERY closely at #2 by ARexx. This is a dealer that sells 8-10 Amiga systems a week.
#3966From: SyndesisDec 15, 1988 12:01 PM
Well, we could always ask Hawes if he knows that the "typical" user bought ARexx. If ARexx was popular among programmers, and programmers are frequent visitors to dealers, then sales might look good at your local dealer. At face value, I think it's fair to say that ARexx programming, or any programming in general, is beyond the typical user's ken. I still maintain that a lot of users rarely make it back to their local dealer – and that the ones that do, are the techies who know about things like the release of 1.3. I don't remember an update being mailed out about 1.3.
#3967From: Steve AhlstromDec 15, 1988 1:20 PM
I would say that any Amiga owner who does not know about 1.3 lives in a dark hole somewhere. They don't read Amiga mags, attend user group meetings, visit their local software store, or talk to other Amiga users. If that's the case, they aren't a computer user. A computer owner, yes. But owning an Amiga an living in a black hole doesn't make you a user – novice or otherwise. If you really want to get in touch with the 'average' user, donate a week of your time to work for your local dealer — see just who is buying and using the machines. You can write it off as market research.
#3928From: SyndesisDec 13, 1988 10:57 PM
PenPal is supposed to be a novice's word processor, right? I don't think most novices use ARexx. Programmers may value ARexx, but beyond that… I wouldn't hold up production to add ARexx. Read action: del Deleted