CompuServe Thread

#A1000 keyboard

32 messages in this thread
#4032From: Alex SchneiderNov 24, 1990 12:48 AM
Does anybody know of the availability of a keyboard to replace that of an A1000? (yes, I still have mine) Keys are sticking and functioning erratically, cleaning doesn't seem to help. Thanks, Alex
#4038From: Don Curtis/SYSOPNov 24, 1990 2:05 AM
Alex, You can use an A2000 keyboard and an adapter. It won't fit under you A1000 anymore, but it'll work just fine. Don
#4075From: Alex SchneiderNov 24, 1990 11:18 PM
Will any old IBM-style keyboard work on the A1000 with an adapter? Would such an adapter have to be homebrewed? Has a design been published anywhere?
#4078From: Don Curtis/SYSOPNov 25, 1990 12:21 AM
Alex, NO. When you hit a key on a keyboard, it generates what is known as a scancode. PC scancodes and Amiga scancodes don't match, thus while you could physically attach a PC keyboard to an Amiga, you'd not get the correct information. Scancodes aren't standard, even on a PC, an XT keyboard doesn't generate the same scancodes that an AT keyboard does. So the fact that the AMiga scancodes are different is not unusual. Northgate does make a multi-use keyboard where you set which set of scancodes it generates by setting some switches on the bottom. One of the settings if for an Amiga, so that particular keyboard could be used with the Amiga. The cables can be homebrew…there's not much to it. It just adapts the DIN plug on an A2000 keyboard to the A1000. If you make a homebrew cable, make SURE you have it right. Otherwise you could very easily blow some of the A1000's circuitry. Don
#4091From: Alex SchneiderNov 25, 1990 1:49 PM
Ok, thanks, I'll ask around at retailers. e
#4047From: Gregory B. TibbsNov 24, 1990 1:54 PM
You can use a Northgate keyboard and an adapter. I use one on my A3000 and it works great, although it was pricey. -Greg
#4100From: Roy S. LauferNov 25, 1990 6:21 PM
Greg, Regardign using a Northgate keyboard on your A3000. Any particular benefit over using it rather the stock keyboard it came with? Any added features, or is it just the "feel" of the keyboard that you prefer? BTW, didn't you once say that you recommended holding off purchasing an A3000 until they had time to revise their motherboard. Have you changed your mind or is this a system you purchased for developer purposes long ago. -RSL-
#4105From: Gregory B. TibbsNov 25, 1990 7:44 PM
I am using it with my A2500/30. I have yet to buy an A3000. Believe me, I wouldn't have bought a developer machine long ago because you got ancient versions of motherboard and chips. There was a reason CBM was so willing to discount the price! As far as Northgate keyboards, I use one of their systems at work. I have always found their keyboards excellent. I have also had the infuriating problem that my original A2000 keyboard would intermittantly fail, taking sometimes a half hour to decide to work again. Some people have reported having problems with the NG keyboard and accelerated Amigas. I haven't had the problem yet. I do have an older version ROM in my Ultra keyboard. Maybe something changed in the newer ones. -Greg
#4479From: Roy S. LauferNov 30, 1990 3:27 PM
Greg, Oh, I thought that you mentioned that you owned an A3000, and I remember your previous cautions. So far I haven't had any problems with my A3000's keyboard, so I think I'll save the $100 plus on yet some other "toy" for my A3000. BTW, I understand that Expert Systems, the guys that sell your Rejuvenator, are working on a multiple parallel/serial I/O board. Are you doing any work on this product?? -RSL-
#4553From: Gregory B. TibbsDec 1, 1990 7:14 AM
No. I have access to Expert's A3000s, but I've always said I'm gonna wait until the unit stabilizes before I buy one myself. Expert's multi I/O card is developed by a number of other people. I have no association with that product (If I had, it would have been out 6 months ago!). It is currently waiting on SW drivers to be written. I've at least four more HW projects of my own that should be out in the next few months: A dual (512KROM-compatible) ROM adapter, the A1000 bus expansion buffer kit, and a couple of others that are kinda competition-sensitive. The ROM kit and one of the 'classified' projects should be out by 1 Jan, the exp buffer by 1 Feb, and the other 'classified' project mid-summer. I am also in the midst of upgrading the Rejuvenator to use Zip DRAM so we can sell a 2 Meg chip ram version. It will also have dual ROM sockets (and retain KS disk mode). Expected cost of that unit will depend on 1 Meg x 4 Zip DRAMS. At $40 each (4 needed) the 2 Meg Rejuvenator will list near $650. Finally, the existing Rejuvenators can be upgraded to 2 Meg of chip RAM. The Zip adapter board I have talked about previously is in production. Price will be $275. It includes 2 Meg Agnus, 2 Meg of RAM, and the adapter PCB. A $25 credit will be given if you exchange your Rejuvenator's old 1 Meg Agnus, bringing the cost to $250. It is steep, but the adapter PCB came in a lot higher cost than estimated. -Greg
#4484From: Roy S. LauferNov 30, 1990 3:31 PM
Greg, Oh, I thought that you mentioned that you owned an A3000, and I remember your previous cautions. So far I haven't had any problems with my A3000's keyboard, so I think I'll save the $100 plus on yet some other "toy" for my A3000. BTW, I understand that Expert Systems, the guys that sell your Rejuvenator, are working on a multiple parallel/serial I/O board. Are you doing any work on this product?? -RSL-
#4192From: John DraperNov 27, 1990 12:26 AM
Seems a shame to get rid of that beautiful A1000 keyboard just because a few keys stick. You might want to try a _good_ cleaning, cosnsisteing of dismantling the keyboard and washing it thoroughly, followed with a selective application of a _fgood_, residue-free contact cleaner/lube. What the heck… line up a replacement, then try the cleaning. -larry
#4244From: Alex SchneiderNov 27, 1990 6:50 PM
A month or so ago, my v key started sticking, getting worse with time. After I got fed up, I pulled the keycap off with a DIP puller and squirted some rubbing alcohol in the keyswitch. That fixed the v key, but over the next few weeks I had to take off large numbers of keycaps at a time (once I had to pull 15) for cleaning. Then it slowly lessened until the only problem I've had in the past week or so is a key that won't make contact (also fixable with rubbing alcohol). I was looking into replacement keyboards in case this one just stopped working for one reason or another. That bit of cleaning seems to have worked for now, I'll see how it works in the future. Do you really see that much aesthetic value in the A1000 keyboard? (:
#4279From: John DraperNov 27, 1990 11:01 PM
The 1000 keyboard is, without question, the single best keyboard I have ever used. Great feel, wonderfully ergonomic, and it fit into the 'garage'. -larry
#4323From: Alex SchneiderNov 28, 1990 5:15 PM
It is a nice keyboard for general use, but when I'm going full blast at 60 words per minute (many, many years of compuserve, heh), I think my father's generic IBM keyboard might be a bit better for my purposes. Even when clean, the A1000's keyswitches feel somewhat overdamped.
#4287From: Betty Clay/SYSOPNov 27, 1990 11:39 PM
ALEX – RUBBING ALCOHOL? Most people say that is not a very good idea, and that you should use one of the electronics cleaners such as you would use on the contacts on a tape recorder, etc. – the kind you would get at Radio Shack. I think rubbing alcohol is supposed to leave a residue that is not good. Betty
#4324From: Alex SchneiderNov 28, 1990 5:17 PM
I do think it would be a better idea to use some sort of alcohol-like electronics cleaner, but we were out of tv tuner cleaner (is that a bda idea, too?) when the problem arose.
#4358From: John DraperNov 29, 1990 12:12 AM
Isopropyl alcohol is available from virtually any drug store, though it usually isn't on a shelf, and you might have to ask for it. Rubbing alcohol is isopropyl, with the addition of a small amount of oil and a scenting agent. -larry
#4386From: Betty Clay/SYSOPNov 29, 1990 12:25 PM
I'm no expert on this – but my husband taught electronics for years, and he's tried hard to teach me. I think the TV tuner cleaner should work fine. Betty
#4397From: Pete GouldNov 29, 1990 2:55 PM
Betty, The only problem with tuner cleaner is that there's more than one kind. One type of tuner cleaner leaves a lubricant residue that will not be good for the keyboard. Nonresidue cleaners are what to look for — Radio Shack, among others, markets a nonresidue aerosol cleaner. Pete
#4289From: Don Curtis/SYSOPNov 28, 1990 12:09 AM
Alex, Why do you think it's called "Rubbing Alcohol" versus just plain "Alcohol"? Because it has oils in it…oils that collect dust and dirt and cause keys to start sticking. Get some Radio Shack Zero Residue Cleaner and use that to clean the keys and contacts. As to the keyboard itself…probably one of the best keyboards for "feel" every made as far as I'm concerned. I loved it. Don
#4325From: Alex SchneiderNov 28, 1990 5:18 PM
I thought it was just isopropyl and water. I'll pick up some zero residue cleaner in the near future.
#4394From: Steve AhlstromNov 29, 1990 12:28 PM
Alex, Rubbing alcohol? Boy, are you asking for trouble! Unless you like attracting dirt and grunge to your keyswitches (rubbing alcohol often contains petroleum distilates, lanolin, etc.) use something a bit more high quality – like 95% pure isopropyl alcohol (available in the diabetic supplies section of most any grocery or drug store). If you go directly to the pharacist you get get 99% pure isopropyl. Using rubbing alcohol is only slightly better than squirting 3 in 1 oil down there. -sja
#4407From: Mike SchillerNov 29, 1990 4:30 PM
Steve: Gee, that's a good idea! use 3 in 1 and get three keypresses for the price of 1!! <g> -Mike Schiller In sunny Fort Lauderdale
#4419From: Alex SchneiderNov 29, 1990 7:45 PM
Ok, no more rubbing alchohol. I'll be sure to pick up some no residue cleaner. Rubbing alcohol must not leave too much residue, since it worked so far, but down the road, I guess it might have made me sorry.
#4218From: Gary LucasNov 27, 1990 8:14 AM
Alex, When I have this problem I do the following: 1. Turn off the Amiga and disconnect the KeyBoard 2. Carefully pop off all the keys. Remembering the sticky ones. 3. Turn the KeyBoard Upside Down and shake vigorusly (you won't believe the crud that will fall out). 4. Clean the keyboard with a damp cloth (lightly moisten with water) and allow to dry. 5. Clean all the keys. 6. Buy some PURE SILICONE spray available at most Hardware stores. 7. Lightly moisten a Q-Tip Swab with the PURE SILICONE and apply sparingly to the "STICKY" key posts working them up and down until they no longer stick. 8. Replace all keys on their proper posts (use the picture in the Amiga Manual. The above should save you from buying a NEW KeyBoard it has for me. — Gary Lucas —
#4245From: Alex SchneiderNov 27, 1990 6:56 PM
Cleaning with rubbing alcohol has worked for me (see my message, probably the one right before this one). I did find plenty of cat hair and a few fingernail clippings under the keycaps I did remove. Can silicone when used as a lubricant be depended upon not to gum up? Also I heard than many silicones (possibly only the adhesives) contain acetic acid which corrodes copper. This might not be true, since I don't think that copper will replace the hydrogen to make the copper salt, but it is something to think about.
#4290From: Don Curtis/SYSOPNov 28, 1990 12:14 AM
Alex, Humm…try taking a dirty penny and sticking it in vinegar and leaving it there for an hour or so. Now tell me that acetic acid and copper are "friends" and won't react. And don't forget…vinegar is only 5% acetic acid. Silicon adhesives generally do use acetic acid as a curing agent; however, you'd not use an adhesive to cure a sticking problem. You do NOT want to put any libricant on a keyboard, you want it clean and DRY. Oils, etc. collect dust and dirt and eventually gum things up. Don
#4326From: Alex SchneiderNov 28, 1990 5:21 PM
I was wary of using a lubricant when it was suggested to me for that reason. A lubricant would eventually cause the same problems that stuck the keyboard in the first place and be tougher to remove.
#4357From: John DraperNov 29, 1990 12:09 AM
Alex, I have had excellent results with a _good_ contact cleaner. These leave a protective film and provide some lubrication without gumming up or attracting more gunk. The brand I am currently using is Chemtronics Kontact Restorer. -larry
#4418From: Alex SchneiderNov 29, 1990 7:39 PM
I'll havve to get some of that tomorrow, it's getting sticky again. ^^ doubled v, but it isn't sticking, the computer just seems to get two "v" signals sometimes when I hit the key.
#4384From: Gary LucasNov 29, 1990 8:37 AM
Alex, All I can tell you is what worked for me. I was told by a local Amiga Repair Tech. (I am NOT the tech. type) to: buy a can of "PURE" silicone; remove the key cap; slightly moisten the end of a Q-Tip with the "PURE" silicone; lightly apply it to the key post; and work (push up & down) the key post to get "free" movement. In our office, we have had 4 A-1000s since May of 1986. They are used mostly for word processing 8 hours a day 5 & 1/2 days a week. Only 2 have had problems with keys sticking and each had only one sticky key. We used "PURE" silicone (method described above) ONCE and have NOT had any reoccuring problems. The last time we had to "liberate" a key was over a year ago. I still have the FULL can of "PURE" silicone in my desk just in case…8^). — Gary Lucas —