#Amiga Info Needed
21 messages in this thread
I work at a state university and our TV studio is looking into buying some
Amigas for production work. I'm somewhat familiar with Amiga and I believe
it to offer the best price/performance ratio of any hardware platform. We
mostly have IBM's and compatibles. Our art department has several Macs.
Unfortunately, our Associate VP has hesitant on introducing another
platform on campus. He believes that we could probably do everything we
want on an IBM platform. I don't believe that we can, not without spending
*alot* more money for special hardware. What I'm looking for is:
1. Specifics about what the Amiga can do and what type of cost differential
there would be in configuring a similar IBM based system.
2. Specifics about what can't be duplicated on an IBM platform.
3. Anything else in general. Technical details would be valuable since the
man
I need to sell the idea to is very knowledgable.
As I said, I am somewhat familiar with Amiga but I assume that someone here
would be more eloquent in stating the reasons for getting an Amiga. The
video toaster is not really an issue at this point however as I understand
it, Newtek its own OEM video toaster as a repackaged Amiga.
Thanks,
Randy Schirmer
The absolute first thing you should do is call 800-765-3406 and ask for a
demo tape and literature on the Newtek Video Toaster. The tape and info is
free of charge and it will leave no doubt in anyones mind that an
Amiga-Toaster setup will not only enhance your current capabilities but
save you thousands, even tens of thousands, of dollars in doing so.
Look up the November (I think) MacUser magazine, and you'll find that the
auhtor reviewing the last MacWorld show said something like "The biggest
hit of the Mac Show wasn't even a Macanitosh, it was an Amiga."
If you'd like, contact Spot Productions (a video & radio ad production
company in San Jose) and ask for Frank Vanella (tell him I sent you) and
ask how he uses the Amiga in conjunction with his Macs and IBM's. Their #
is 408-224-1500. You can also contact Frank online here on CIS at user id#
76527,723.
Since you're here on cis anyway, why not do a search online for periodical
articles giving the facts & figures of the Amiga. USe the search terms
AMIGA & VIDEO nad AMIGA & TOASTER.
Since your on campus, maybe you can find someone with a copy of Todd
Rundgren video "Change Myself", produced by TR himself ENTIRELY on
AMiga-Toasters (ten of them actually)(the video is included on the Newtek
Toaster demo tape).
The Toaster features:
Broadcast Quality Four Input Video Switcher
Real-Time Digital Video Effects
35 ns Charachter Generator
16.8 million color paint system
Interactive Color Processor
Two 16.8 million color Frame Buffers
16.8 million color Frame Grabber
Overlay Genlock
Luminance Keyer
3D Modeling, Rendering and Animation.
All of this at under $2,000. Put this video appliance in an Amiga
2500HD/68030 w/a bunch of ram, add a time base corrector (which you folks
probably already have) and hook it up to your existing equipment and you've
got one hell of a lot of video power for very little money. It not only
does it's magic better than anything else under $100,000, it does some
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Michael –
I realize I'm picking nits, but it's more appropriate now to say "under
$3000". I myself _was_ considering a Toaster, but now it's out of my range.
If Randy has to convince someone to go Amiga, let's make sure he doesn't
find out later it's several hundred dollars more than he expected.
Harry
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things that haven't been possible before.
Good-Luck!
– Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
Hi Michael, Commodore's been on campus and demo'd the Toaster. We also have
a symposium on campus which they attended. Everyone agrees that what can be
done is incredible. I need to be able to convince the powers that be that
in order to do the same quality of work on an MSDOS platform, it would cost
alot more Money than on an Amiga, and I'm not sure that you could even do
as much. Those type PC's weren't made for video. I will look around for
whatever I can find. Thanks.
Randy
Randy:
One reference I left out (because it sort of ignores the Amiga, and is
quite misleading in that respect) is an article on page 872 of the December
Computer Shopper that talks about the Video Toaster… it really deals with
NewTeks introduction of the "stand-alone toaster workstation" designed to
allow Macintosh computers to controller the Amiga based toaster, but points
out much of it's ability and value.
If you show this to 'the powers that be' at your institution, be sure to
point out the gross neglect of the author who stated
"It is a self contained-system, which performs many of the Video Toaster
functions from a window on the Macintosh, requiring no host computer".
That statement is completely false, as the Toaster card is actually
mounted in an Amiga 2000 series computer with the Amiga logo covered with a
Video Toaster label, under a VAR agreement with Commodore (and, in the case
of the 68030 based machine, GVP-Great Valley Products).
– Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
I have that issue of Computer Shopper. I'll check it out. I read about
NewTek's 'stand alone' toaster in either Amiga World or in some other video
magazine. I think it was in the context of explaining why Newtek was
increasing the price of the new version of the toaster.(In order to bring
the cost of an Amiga and Toaster card more in line with what they
were asking for their own system.
Randy
BTW–
Glad to hear that CBM made it on to the campus to provide a demo!
– Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
Wellll….I work at West Chester University which is maybe 5 miles from
Commodore! But they have been here several times. Actually, there is
another department that is interested in Amiga. This is not the TV studio.
There is a good chance they'll get one although we wouldn't need the
toaster. What I need to know is if I could import Animator Pro flics into
Amiga Vision. The sales people didn't know what Animator was. I figure
there's a conversion utility somewhere.
Randy
randy–
There is no easy way to move .fli files into AmigaVision, or any other
ANIM-compatible program, for that matter. There are two ways that I am
familiar with:
* There is a PD program (you can probably find it here) called "Flit"
which will do a pretty crude conversion. Graphic quality is very marginal.
* Extract all the frames of the .fli as .gif files (I believe that you
can do this). Bring them over to the Amiga via modem, wire, or Cross-Dos.
Convert them with ADPro or other conversion software. Use DPaint or other
software to make them into an ANIM file.
It can be done, but not gracefully.
Jonathan
– via Whap!
It may also be possible to convert the fli into the Cfast format used by
Disney in the Animation Studio. The Animation studio builds and plays back
both iff and cfast files from either the ms-dos or the Amiga version. I've
been using this method to transport my amiga IFF anims over to the dos
world with only minor problems. No conversion is necessary as Disney has
basically created an IFF Anim viewer for the pc. Very nice…
Keith–
Hmm, this is very interesting information, indeed. However, how does one
go from Cfast to .FLI format? Is this in the Disney format as well, or is
there another way?
Jonathan
Very good question… I will have to boot up my animation studio and see if
it allows for the conversion or importation of .fli files. There is a
convert program included with the MS-DOS version but I have never tried it
out. I will give it a shot and let ya know.
Hi Keith, could you let me know as well?
Randy
Keith,
I would be very interested to find out if the Disney .fli<–>anim
method works, since I might have an application involving porting a
substantial amount of Amiga animation over to the PC.
Jonathan
Sorry, I asked the same question in my reply to your previous note. I
should have read all the notes first!
Randy
Randy:
Your ASSociate VP is wrong about trying to get video work done with a PC.
It really won't happen, at least without a lot of grief. I deal with all
three platforms at work, and video on the PC is like pulling teeth.
First, animation is usually pretty bad on a PC, and when its any good,
its only because of brute strength. I've yet to see smooth animation on a
PC in any resolution beyond 320×200, albeit in 256 colors.
Here are some things to think about:
* Video on the PC is expensive. Things like genlocks (for
overlaying graphics) tend to be either more expensive on the PC, or don't
work as well. This is probably due to the NTSC clock on the Amiga, and the
lack of one on the PC.
* Software on the PC tends to be more limited, and more
expensive. I understand that there are some decent titlers, however, but
for animation, see the above.
* The Amiga multi-tasks, and does so quickly and smoothly. This
allows you jump from program to program quickly and easily. Its an
inherently more efficient way to get things done as opposed to DOS. Seems
to work out better in the hectic studio environment.
* Unified file formats. Most animations on the Amiga are ANIM
format, most still graphics IFF format. No problems with .fli, .gl, .tif,
pcx, .bmp, .tga, etc…
* Lastly, the Amiga is a niche machine to some degree, and we
tend to see certain innovations first. Go to a dealer and check out the
Toaster, DCTV, ADPro, DPaint IV, Imagine, Broadcast Titler, Pro Video
Post…these are products that have no equal on the PC.
Lastly, if there is a problem with having different platforms,
make sure to note that Amiga can read 720k MS-DOS disks with a $20 utility,
can run MS-DOS with several hardware and/or software products out there,
can emulate the Mac (and share files with it that way), and can hook into a
network. Programs like ADPro allow you to translate between formats with
ease.
One last thing: the last friend of mine that tried to produce
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video with a PC couldn't do it. He was given a 386/33 (fully blown), a VGA
Producer card, two JVC S-VHS decks (high end industrial), 3DStudio and
Autodesk Animator, a Targa+ card….in the end, he never did really
complete the job, and what he did looked terrible. He hated using it.
Leave the spreadsheets to the PC. Make this guy get you an Amiga.
Jonathan
– via Whap!
You gave me some things that I can use. In fact I'll show him your reply,
(with the last sentence edited out! Don't want him to dig his heels in!) He
does want the best price/performance. I'll let you know what happens. BTW:
I do work with a 386, Autodesk Animator. I'm getting 3dStudio for work. Did
your friend use Animator Pro or just Animator? 320×200 really doesn't look
all that great. One last thought…I assume that there are utilities to
convert Animator files in order to use them with AmigaVision?
Randy
Randy–
My friend uses Animator, but is getting Pro pretty soon. I find it hard to
believe that the PC can animate very well in resolutions over 320×200, but
I will soon see. I expect that my friend's results will be similiar to
those that I saw in the Magni booth at the CAMP show – pretty lackluster.
About buying 3D Studio: I really suggest that you DON'T. Why?
Well, aside from the nice interface (and it is very nice, indeed), the
program just ain't that great. Its rendering quality is OK, but it is
SLOWWWWW….much slower than anything I've seen on the Amiga. Also, it is
$$EXPENSIVE$$…for the price of 3D Studio, you could probably put together
either all (or most) of an Amiga Toaster system, including Lightwave (the
NewTek 3-D package). In case you have any doubts, find the Sept/Oct issue
of New Media Age; they rate Lightwave head and shoulders over 3D Studio (it
was given the AWESOME rating, while, if memory serves, 3DS was given DOES
THE JOB). This is also a good reason to look into the Amiga. There are
other 3D packages that do not come with display hardware, and are very
cheap. I have a feeling that using an Amiga with either Draw4D Pro, or
with Calligari 2 (and I might suggest a 3000 for this usage, due to its
better real-time animation capability), and displaying through DCTV, might
provide all the functionality you are looking for, at a much reduced price.
Checkit out…
Jonathan
My place of employment is getting it. With our educational discount it
costs $595 although the retail is $3000. It is available to general users
for $1600 until Dec 20 (I think). Like I said earlier, we may wind up
getting an Amiga for another area in the computer center. BTW: I forwarded
your reply to our VP. It did make him consider what it is he wants the
studio to do. We'll see what happens…
Randy