Sony 9700-Toaster
11 messages in this thread
Frank–Thank you for the input. The losses I refer to using Hi8 occur in
generations all made with the 9700 which I assume uses internal Y-C
dubbing. What I have been doing is editing on the 9700 (using Toaster for
effects) and then transfering to VHS for distribution using a consumer VCR.
My greatest losses actually occur in this last step. My thought is that
since a professional S-VHS recorder has VHS capability, I will be able to
make VHS copies using the S-VHS recorder and retain the Y-C dubbing. I am
using a device made by CCI Electronics which converts the Toaster composite
output to Y-C. I haven't noticed any losses attributable to the Toaster.
At the same time, I am hopeful that the S-VHS setup will give me one
more generation to play with—we'll see about that. Does any of this make
sense ?
I appreciate your help and am still grateful for your showing me how
to put CG over framestores.
Don't hesitate to tell me if I'm on the wrong track with the S-VHS
plan.
–\/ |<-
Van, unless you are using a tbc when you edit, you are going to incurr a
loss of signal quality. The 9700 may in fact have internal YC, but I don't
think it has a tbc correcting the signal during your edit. The other unit
you described from CCI cannot increase your existing resolution, it can
only make it possible for you to use the YC dub input on your SVHS machine.
You could still see some benefit from using a TBC at this final stage, you
might want to borrow or rent a transcoding tbc and experiment with it
before you plunk down any money.
Regards
Frank
May I jump in with a question? Is a transcoding tbc a special breed? I have
a newly-acquired toaster with a Personal TBC. I have been assuming that
when I pass images from the player deck through the tbc, toaster etc. and
out to the recorder deck, I would be getting better results than if I did a
straight dub by connecting the two decks directly.
Is this the case or do I need a different type of tbc? (Does one ever stop
buying equipment when you get into video).
Thanks, Barbara Andrew
Barbara,
Welcome to the world of video. The "buying" never ends if you want to
keep up with technology.
In response to your question, your image quality will only be as good as
the weakest link in your system. Yes, a transcoding TBC is different from
your Personal TBC. And in some ways better, certainly more expensive.
Your signal when using a TBC, is technically better than going from
machine to machine. It may not be a visable difference on your edit master.
You should however notice a difference when going another generation. There
are better TBC's available. I try to think of the old hot rod saying "Speed
costs money, how fast do you want to go?" when upgrading equipment. You can
go faster, only you can decide if you need to.
The next depressing time is when you find out how much your equipment is
worth when you need to sell it at upgrade time.
Karl
– via Whap!
Karl, thanks for your reply. I'm not trying to go terrifically fast with
this video setup, although I sometimes feel a bit of windburn when I find
out about what other people are doing. Over the years I've always figured
on a two-year payback timeframe for any equipment … I'm reluctantly
having to change my mindset to a one-year term and refuse to admit to
myself that it's really only about 3 weeks. I don't really consider the
equipment to have any resale value (consequently I'm surrounded by old
equipment — anyone want to buy an Osborne computer? only 10 years old). I
still have tons to learn about video and there always seems to be just one
more thing I really need to get. And I'm learning a lot from the chat in
this forum. Thanks again. Barbara
Barbara, I see someone else responded to your question to me. Unfortunately
the answer that was given was somewhat misleading. Let me set you straight.
The Personal TBC WILL TRANSCODE SVHS and Hi-8 signals at a high enough
bandwidth to give you better resolution than a plain composite signal for
input to the Toaster. This of course presupposes that you:
1. Have either an SHVS or Hi-8 playback source.
2. Have set the proper jumpers on the Personal TBC card (as specified in
your manual.
Regarding your enquiry about straight VTR to VTR hookups as opposed to
going through a TBC. You will indeed get better results using the TBC.
You may quote me as follows: "To be in the video business , is to be in
debt" I have yet to meet anyone in the biz who is free and clear, no matter
how sucessful they become. There is ALWAYS some new technology that gobbles
up a portion of your expendable cash and then some.
Regards
Frank
Hi Frank, nice to see you again….
I am dubbing SVHS tapes and own a PTBC II. Am I better off to go straight
from deck to deck, or use the P TBC SVHS in and COMPOSITE out?
–Paul < Motorola Inside > 😉
Paul, that depends on how good the composite input to your deck is. What
you might gain in a Y358 dub without the TBC, can be sabatoged with tape
transport induced time base error.The time base error comes from the
playback deck, AND the record deck. Removing half of the time base error
from the dub process by using a TBC will reduce perceptable generation loss
greatly. I believe that it is a good rule of thumb to ALWAYS use a TBC when
possible. Since your TBC only transcodes one way (S to composite) it is
better than no tbc at all, but not quite as good as a TBC that processes YC
throughout. BTW, it looks like we are getting quite a soaking from the
storm (SJ area), how is it goping up your way?
Regards
Frank
Thanks for the help there Frank.
Highway 101 was closed at the county line and I had some poor lady stuck
in an elevator in greenbrae. Lady had to stand up for 2 hours, the floor
was soaked, she said it was rain water.
Rough day. Very wet. Russian River getting too high.
Turned off pager.
If you go deck to deck in your S-VHS dubbing, you will elimanate the NTSC
artifacting (i.e. Dot crawl)…
Forrest
Frank, thank you for your answer. I see I was on the right track. I'm not
looking for broadcast quality or anything, but I do want to get the end
product as clear and sharp as I possibly can. It's a problem in this video
area, people tell you they want something low budget, but sub-consciously
they really expect the type of quality they're used to seeing on TV. I
haven't yet found a way to explain they can't have both! Thanks again,
Barbara.