CompuServe Thread

#Mind's Eye

19 messages in this thread
#30460From: SyndesisDec 27, 1992 5:00 PM
Are you currently using an Abekas as part of your video production? What exactly would you like to see in software that links the Abekas to 3D Studio? (Anyone else interested in Abekas support, please chime in, too!)
#30464From: Bret WeeksDec 27, 1992 7:10 PM
Actually, we haven't yet added an a-60 to our edit suite, but as of now, for hand drawn rotoscpoing, frame editing, etc, it'd be nice to be able to simply lay the animations directly to digital, rather than laying them to tape….. even though we're a component room, there is some generation loss from beta to beta (source to master ( animation cut into the master), so just seeing the support there would be nice..
#30473From: SyndesisDec 28, 1992 12:13 AM
I think the biggest gain from Abekas support will be the availability of video post production / service bureau type places that will offer deals like "send us an Exabyte tape in Abekas format, and we'll send you back a tape." With this, you'd make a $2000 investment in an Exabyte tape drive (which makes a great backup unit, too) and gain the benefits of digital recording. It stacks up well against investing in a complete single-framing solution.
#30474From: Bret WeeksDec 28, 1992 12:45 AM
I'm sure that for service bureaus, that would be more than true. For us, since we are a production service company, including everything from cameras, cranes, lights, stages, etc, to complete post production facilities, any compatibility with exisiting post hardware (Grass Valley, Abekas, etc.) is something that I find myself looking for constantly. All of our paint and animation (including CG) is PC based, and a lot of the time, I find myself wanting to call MANY tech support lines, and ask the question "Hey, have you guys ever even HEARD of, or seen for that matter, anything even resembling BROADCAST QUALITY equipment?" (Just a note for the ADesk guys, none of this pertains to you) because it seems as thought there is always a problem getting either the hardware, or the software to be fully functional with our suite, or any of the equipment in it…… I guess in my question about Abekas compatibility, I was sending out a little test to see what kind of response I'd get, either a "What the heck is Abekas", or the resonse I've gotten so far….. Autodesk (3DS) is really the first company whose software I've purchased that actuly seems like it was written for a brodcast environment…. Just wish I could say the same thing about our paint software……
#30465From: MARTIN G FOSTERDec 27, 1992 9:10 PM
John, Yes, I'd like to see that. According to Gary Yost somebody's writing an IPAS or a conversion utility to do that, although he was rather vague about details and such.
#30472From: SyndesisDec 28, 1992 12:11 AM
Yes, I've heard that rumor, too. 🙂 Do you work with an A-60, directly or indirectly?
#30475From: MARTIN G FOSTERDec 28, 1992 3:14 AM
I haven't used an A-60 at all yet, but have the capability of sending my animations to a production house equipped with one.
#30492From: Yost GroupDec 28, 1992 1:52 PM
John, I should probably explain what an Abekas is to the folks who might not be familiar with that device. A company called Abekas in Calif. makes a bunch of video postproduction equipment. They're most-famous for making a line of digital disk recorders that store digital video on extremely fast hard disks (either in component D1 format or composite D2 format). Once the video is in digital format on the disk recorder, it can be pumped out through encoders to any format (Betacam, D1, D2, 1", etc.). It just so happens that the Abekas DDR's use the Exebyte 8mm tape backup system as an archival storage device. And since you can buy an Exebyte tape drive to backup a PC or Mac, there's a fairly simple way to get data over from the PC to the DDR. The only catch is that the data must be formatted in the correct CCITT 4:2:2 digital video format on the PC before backing up to the Exebyte. This requires a program to convert Targa files to digital video format. With such a program, a 3DS user could theoretically back up images to a $2000 Exebyte tape drive, and then send the tapes out to a postproduction house with the capability of delivering true broadcast-quality video via FedExp in any format. This would allow any 3DS user to do broadcast-quality stuff with only a $2000 investment in the Exebyte drive. (Works great in theory, anyway… 🙂 – G
#30503From: MARTIN G FOSTERDec 28, 1992 3:33 PM
Gary, Thanks for explaining that to me/us. I thought it was along those lines but now you've given me the definitive answer. Theoretically, this sounds like an excellent capability to have, especially for someone like me who still hasn't made the questionable investment of buying a broadcast deck. It remains to be seen as to who has the A60 setup and what they would charge for such a service: I vaguely know of one such place up in SF, in the same building as Xaos. I'll try and contact them and see what such a service would cost FYI, or for anyone who's interested. Happy New Year.
#30525From: Yost GroupDec 28, 1992 10:57 PM
Every city has at least a few post houses with Abekas devices. Not _all_ of them have the Exebyte unit, but many do. And since there has been some activity in Mac-land with this type of thing, it's getting more commonplace. I'm pretty sure that this is going to be part of the next wave of service bureau work. It makes it possible for anyone to do broadcast quality work competitive with Wavefront/Alias stuff without having to have ANY video equipment at home. Of course, it's always best to have at least a hi8, svhs, or 3/4" deck to do real-time video tests to, but you can get those used pretty cheaply these days. – G PS: In San Francisco, both Varitel and Pacific Video Resources do this kind of thing.
#30508From: CARL SMITHDec 28, 1992 6:07 PM
Garyrendering your animation to a sequence of targa files loading them onto a tape back up such as a Colorado Jumbo, then tacking them to a post production house, instead of the Exebyte. A $250.00 tape backup verses $2000.00 backup. Is this just for the benifit of the Abekas? And if so what is the quality difference between targa files rendered on the computer, saved to tape, then single framed recorded on to 3/4" tape or SVHS verses the digital video format? Always trying to learn something new. Carl
#30527From: Yost GroupDec 28, 1992 11:00 PM
Carl, the BIG (and singular) difference between using the Exebyte drive and ANY other tape drive is that the Abekas units ONLY work with Exebyte drives. They're not DOS devices, so you can't use standard DOS archival media. Due to some fortunate serendipity, the Exebyte is available as a backup device across almost all hardware (Mac, PC, Amiga, Sun AND Abekas). Regarding quality difference… there's no comparison. Every analog method of getting video to tape has its associated analog artifacts. Basically, if you've got to get the image onto tape using a frame buffer, you're going to introduce a zillion pieces of video "garbage" into the signal. However, when you go straight to video digitally, there are NO analog artifacts. It's like the difference between night and day. – G
#30530From: CARL SMITHDec 28, 1992 11:39 PM
Garyand learn. Carl
#30531From: CARL SMITHDec 28, 1992 11:41 PM
Gary Thanks for the enlightment! Thats what I love about this forum. I can always learn something new. Carl
#30509From: CARL SMITHDec 28, 1992 6:13 PM
GaryAnyway the message #30508 is suppose to start out: "Am I missing somethin here or what? What is the difference between rendering your animation to a sequence of targa files……." in case you couldn't fiqure it out. Bye Bye Carl-
#30528From: Yost GroupDec 28, 1992 11:00 PM
Got it. – G
#30538From: SyndesisDec 29, 1992 12:24 AM
What I'm really waiting for is all the cool ideas that your users might suggest – ways to combine the power of an Exabyte tape drive with the video post production in 3D Studio, and IPAS… An Abekas is a great way to digitize video, too – you could as easily send that service bureau a video tape, and they could send you back an Exabyte (digital data) tape containing 30 or 60 seconds of digitized video. That might occupy the first part of the tape. There's still a few gigs free. 🙂 An Exabyte 8500 drive has very fast seek times for a tape drive. You could store several sequences of animation on a single tape; then combine and recombine them as needed. Subsequent images could be stored on the middle of the tape, etc. effectively adding a 5 gig hard drive to your system.
#30556From: Yost GroupDec 29, 1992 10:57 AM
You're right… the Abekas/Exebyte combo is certainly the most efficient way to deal with digitized video for rotoscoping. You'd be able to store _minutes_ worth of video on one tape, and you wouldn't have to use up valuable hard disk space. – G
#30657From: James TichenorDec 30, 1992 8:13 PM
Everyone is talking about the Abekas and Exebyte systems. Who, where and how do I find them? Anyone around with info on disc I can borrow?