#Only 4096 Colors?
33 messages in this thread
I just purchased a new color printer (Primera) and in trying to print
some 24 bit images I was disappointed in the quality of the color. So
I went to the Amiga manual under preferences to see if I wanted to
use the RGB color correction under the PrinterGFX requestor. There
it said the use of RGB correction reduces the number of colors that
can be printed via preferences from the ***MAX OF 4096***. I then
remembered that the Fargo salesman had told me on the phone that the
Amiga is only capable of printing a maximum of 4096 colors. I had
discounted this as his being unknowledgeable of Amigas but the manual
for my A3000 supports his contention. So do I have a computer that
won't print 24 bit images? If so do any of the 24bit boards have a
different printer port that supports 18 and 24bit color?
I just never imagined that the parallel port or operating system
would limit us to 4096 colors. What kind of a low end system have I
invested in? Frustrated :^( …Carl
the system as designed by Commodore does not support 24 bit colors.
It supports, in older models, only 4096 colors, or 256,000 if you
have an AGA machine, which is more than many sytems. If you have a
custom graphics board, you can display 24 bit graphics, but that
still does not address the printing issue. To solve that you will
need some software that supports 24 bit printing, such as some of the
24 bit paint programs, or such.
Brian…
Yeah I have a 24 bit image processing program (IM R/t) but it still has to go
through the preferences driver which limits the output to 4096 colors according
to the printer manufacurer and AMIGA DOS manual. :^( Real Bummer!
So now we finally have access to 24 bit color on screen but unless one of the
boards provides a printer port that bypasses the preferences driver we are
limited to printing only 4096 of those colors. Believe me I've tried printing
images with more than 4096 colors without success.
..Carl
Carl,
I've yet to see a printer really do justice to a 24 bit image. They exist but
they're high end. It's much more difficult to put a full color picture on paper
than it is to put it on a monitor screen. Witness the 4 color separation
process.
Our solution is a film recorder. We use a Sharp digital film recorder and a
Retina board. The paint program that comes with bundled with it (TV Paint) is a
true 24 bit system. The images are great. Then we use ADPro, which sends it out
the SCSI port as a data file (no printer driver or printer.device usage) and
ASDG's driver software puts it on either a Polaroid or 35 mm film. A little
expensive initially, but if you do this professionally it's the only way to go
and can easily pay for itself.
Hope this helps.
Andre
Andre…
The Primera printer supports 18 bit color at 203 dpi in the dye-sub mode
(though I haven't been able to try it yet since the Amiga module isn't shipping
yet). This compares quite favoribly (statistics wise) with :the Kodak XL7720
printer I use (24 bit 203 dpi). So I am hoping to get the best quality photo
reproduction out of the Primera printer. However that is going to be very
difficult if the Amiga OS, ECS chipset or parallel device driver limits output
to 4096 colors.
I also have a Polaroid CI3000 film recorder that I haven't yet hooked up to the
Amiga but wonder if it is going to have the same color limits since it is the
parallel port version.
It seems like I may be in for a lot of frustration and expense trying to get my
A3000 to do what I had hoped it would do.
..Carl
Carl,
AdPro supports 24bit printing. I didn't know that, but went to look it
up since it might help. The Saver can output to a printer or save as
postscript.
Brian
bjbart@watserv.ucr.edu
Brian…
Thanks for looking that up for me. ADPro is starting to sound like my only
choice.
..Carl
If you have AdPro, it will printout a 24 bit file… or you can get the
standalone product from ASDG called TruePrint 24 which is pretty much the
same module that is included in AdPro.
All WRONG!
The Fargo Primera printer is dye sub (well, I assume everybody buys this
printer for dye sub). YOU CAN'T USE ADPro or TruePrint for this printer.
The printer can print far more than 8 colors per printer dot while ADPro
and TruePrint outputs just 3 bits, using it's own dithering to simulate 24
bit. The best way to output currently is to use HAM8 (or HAM on non-AGA)
as output mode with an image sized to approx. 2000^3000. This way you can
get pretty close to the technical resolution of the printer, though, color
correction remains a problem.
Now, I got an order for a special Studio version that does output 24 bit
for the Fargo Primera. The software should become available this month.
Let's see. I don't have any info/printer yet, but it's allready at my boss
with lot's of dye sub paper for testing. Also, I plan a screen matching
database for the Fargo Primare for use with Studio V2. So you can be sure,
the 24 bit colors on your monitor are not changed during printing.
— Wolf Faust, Am Dorfgarten 10, 60435 Frankfurt, Germany —
All I can do is quote ASDG here: (from the TruePrint 24 box)
Features: Print 256 shades of grey or 16 million colors
on printers which have Preferences drivers supporting
strip printing.
There is an Amiga driver for the Fargo (sans Dye-Sub option). We will be
very happy to see your driver become available to make the dye-sub option
accessible to Amiga owners!
Reg. Studio for Fargo Primera.
Thats realy nice. It's my christmas present? 🙂
Hope you will announce it when its finished.
As you say you have to bypass the printer.device to get 24bit
hope you do that and get maximum output.
Geir Molstad, FAMO as, Fax +47 22357797
Wolf…
You seem to be the most knowledgeable/experienced in the use of the Primera
printer so here goes.
You say you have ordered a special Studio version? Is that software you have
ordered or are you programing the software. If you are programing it I would
be very interested in beta testing with you since I have the printer and
dye-sub option on order. I am a professional photographer and work extensively
with PhotoCD and the Kodak XL color printers. I have lots of examples to make
comparisons.
I am also very interested in your screen matching database. One of the people
I work with is instrumental in doing the same thing for the Kodak PIWs.
Any additional info you might be able to furnish will be greatly appreciated.
..Carl
I'm the programmer of Studio. Now Studio is distributed by MacroSystem in
Germany, wich is also interested in selling the Fargo printer. Because of
this, we surely thought of a way to make real use of the Fargo 6 bit using
the Studio software. Now I got an order for developing a special version
of Studio for easy printing 24 bit pictures on with the dye sub.
Don't ask me how this soft will be distributed and priced. I assume it
will be included for free with the dye sub upgrade kit in Germany. Anyway,
I don't think it will be real expensive.
Because of time reasons, this software will be pretty simple (ie. like
ADPro's PrefPrinter saver). But with Studio V2 we hope to offer a real
screen matching system for it – wich I think, is a must for these kind of
printers. Otherwise it get's real expensive and near to impossible to get
accurate 24 bit color output as you see it on your gfx card.
— Wolf Faust, Am Dorfgarten 10, 60435 Frankfurt, Germany —
Wolf…
Great news!!! As soon as you have it working you have one sale. In fact if
you want a beta tester I would love to work with you and I would still be
willing to pay for the software when it is finished.
One of the people I work with here in the States is the head
operator/technician for the branch of Kodak that does PhotoCD. He is working
on a technical article on just that subject and using some of my photos for
testing purposes. He wants to come over and see what we can coax out of my
A3000 and Primera printer but I would really like to have a better printer
driver or printer.device before we get real serious.
..Carl
Michael…
Thanks I'm going to look into upgrading my ArtDept to ADPro.
..Carl
True Print 24 form ASDG will print 24 bit images on any model of AMIGA!
No it does not!
As Wolf says its limited to 8bit pr. pixel and NOT 24bit pr. PRINTER
PIXEL
Okey it does clever dithring but its still not possibel to get each pixel
in 1 of 16.7 mil. color.
To Commodore: Please fix printer.device so people can get 24bit!
Geir Molstad, FAMO as, Fax +47 22357797
Geir…
I'll second that call to C=!!!!!!!!
..Carl
Jarrod…
Thanks for the info/help. I'm going to look at ADPro since I believe it
incorporates True Print.
..Carl
ADPro has TRUEPRINT 24 built into. that is correct. [C [CIt looks great, even
on 9pin color printers.
So far IM R/t has been working well for me. I really need to look at the
situation before investing in more software that might or might not be the
best. So far I have been told that AdPro doesn't work well with dye-sub
printing.
..Carl
I have done a couple of DYE SUB prints at my local Amiga Dealership on t their
FARGO (directly out of ADPro) and they have shown me some done with TruePRint
24 (basicly the Printer ROutines from ADpro) and they were Photr graphic
results. They looked good, but I have never been a fan of COLOR printers I
prefer Color Seperation, When a printer can do the equivilent to a 1200 or even
600 DPI halftone 4 COLOR SEP (CMYK) I will but it!
Jarrod…
I'm waiting for a shipment of Primera supplies so I haven't been able to do
much printing but I have been impressed with the prints I have made from small
(350-550k) 24bit Iff files thuough ImageMaster/Rt. Even though I have 14meg of
memory I cannot get IM R/t to print a 5meg file (it comes out looking like a
checker board). I have gone ahead and purchased ImageFX since I like it's
interface better than IM but I am not truelly pleased with either.
When I finally feel I have pushed the Amiga/Primera printer combination I'll
try and post something so others can benefit.
Regarding color printers, have you seen the output from the Kodak XL7720 or the
Tektronics 300dpi postscript? They are truely professional quality. The only
problem with the Tektronics printer is that the paper is the same thickness as
that used in the Primera. The output though is outstanding – better than I can
get at most custom color photographic labs!
..Carl
Well, there is a limit of 4096 colors, if going through the prefs printer
drivers. There are programs that let you print in full 24 bit though!
The one I use is CanonStudio, and a demo is in the libraries. (It prints
nicely on my BJC-600!)
I believe there is support for other printers though. Wolf Faust ids the
author, and he hangs out in the AmigaUser forum, so you can send him a
message asking if your printer is supported through CanonStudio. (The demo
only works on Canon printers though.)
Bob Comer — Flying high and fast with my A1200HD'030 on Autopilot!
From Cheyenne, Wyoming U.S.A.
Bob…
A ray of hope :^). Does CanonStudio contain it's own parallel.device driver?
If it does surely someone could rite one that would work with the Primera
printer. Hopefully Fargo Elec. is doing that right now. Do you think it is
likely that the Canon driver might work with the Primera?
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to follow-up on it.
..Carl
I doubt if the Canon driver would work with it, but it probably wouldn't
be hard for Wolf to write a driver for the Primera. CanonStudio might
though… I don't know how CanonStudio's programmed, so I can't say.
Your welcome! And you should follow up, Wolf Faust makes good drivers!
(apparently the Amiga has the best drivers made for the BJC-600.)
Bob Comer — Flying high and fast with my A1200HD'030 on Autopilot!
From Cheyenne, Wyoming U.S.A.
Bob…
Wolf seems to be suggesting he might write a Primera driver if Commodore
doesn't – and of course we know they won't.
..Carl
Carl,
don't get me wrong. I'm not writing another new Fargo driver (I'm too busy
working on Studio V2 and making such a Fargo driver would cost me another
1 week of time I don't have).
I'm working on a Studio version able to output IFF files (all sorts,
including 24Bit) using the Fargo WB dye sub driver with full color info.
This special Studio version will make full use of the Fargo dye sub
printer. Sure, we will offer all those nice features of the normal Studio
package (can't wait to see my Aussie PhotoCD's get printed 😉
Regarding your request for testing the software: I don't know yet. The
problem is simply time. By the time you get the software, I'm allready
finished. On the other side, I allways like testers (usualy my drivers are
not well tested by people from 'outside' – luckely, I don't had that much
bugs in my software yet…). Just leave me an email in 8 days (I hope to
have something by that time).
— Wolf Faust, Am Dorfgarten 10, 60435 Frankfurt, Germany —
Wolf…
Thanks, will do (leave you E-Mail in 8 days). I look forward to your software
and tomorrow will be ordering more Primera dye-sub paper.
..Carl
You must print them from an app that outputs more colors, like a DTP
program such as PageStream.
-Jonathan
// Amiga online via Autopilot
\\// MAC Quadra 700 & 486 emulation via Amiga!
Again, NO,
PageStream dithers and should NOT be used with the Fargo dye sub
printers!
— Wolf Faust, Am Dorfgarten 10, 60435 Frankfurt, Germany —
Jonathan…
The problem with using PageStream is that it doesn't have a Primera printer
driver so I would have to uuse the preferences printer driver which again
limits it to 4096 colors. Hopefully SoftLogic will write a printer driver for
the Primera….SOON…:^)
..Carl
As far as I know from investigating the drivers, all PageStream drivers do
output dithered data, ie. it's impossible to get more than the dithered
primary color planes.
According to recent posts, PGS 3.0 will have such a possibility.
— Wolf Faust, Am Dorfgarten 10, 60435 Frankfurt, Germany —