#Woca Toronto news?
17 messages in this thread
Anyone care to comment on Woca in Toronto?
What new and interest'n stuff was unveiled?
Did Centaur show the OV modules and (dare I ask) announce a date
for release?
How 'bout Cd32?
Thanks alot,
Chris J.—–>on AutoPilot
Chris…
The show starts in 40 minutes from the time of your posting, so I wouldn't
expect to hear anything substantial until the end of the day. If no one else
posts, I'll do so tonight.
Jim
Chris,
Was at WOCA, here's what I gathered in no particular order:
-Lou Eggbrecht's speech was mostly on the CD 32, which was selling pretty
briskly for more than I thought it would. CD32 will play both types of
movie-on-disk (a Philips-type CD was played), and the full motion card
will be available soon (being manufactured). Got a lot of good response
on other features, but was a tad technical for me.
Showed a UK commercial for CD32 – almost got a standing ovation; obvious
comment was "when here?" CD 32 architecture is very open. He got a
thundering round of applause when he mentioned something about the people
in the hall starting a revolt (I think he knows exactly what is going
on)!
AAA chipset is actually in silicon, 95% bug free but workable. Lotsa
techy details here, capability sounds good. Something about 30M pixels
per second, I dunno.
-Nucleus Personal Editor will be out soon. Real soon. Really soon! (The
HW is done, in CMOS on the cable, not on the development board. I
looked). I played with it; seems pretty straightforeward. Has an
auto-pseudo A/B roll function. Their real A/B setup shouldn't be too long
in coming, I suspect, and it STILL won't use a slot!!! (Nice for 4000
users.)
-Scala, NewTek and SunRise had big booths, the rest were prety normal.
Didn't see a whole lot of new stuff anywhere, but quite a few vendors,
some really recognizable names and a fairly large crowd were in evidence.
Attendance at the seminars was heavy.
That's about all I recall right now. Didn't check out Centaur, sorry.
Someone else jump in here with a better memory?
… Nate,
Emerald Video
Nate…
Other notables at the show would be the Fuzzy Logic people with their
somewhat questionable Lightrave product. They had a booth and were selling
Lightrave from there.
Other vendors included Jim Drew showing Emplant (was nice to finally be able
to see it), Soft Logik showing Pagestream (available first quarter of 94).
Axiom was showing Animation Workshop, version 2 (which I bought). GVP was
showing their usual boatload of stuff, including ImageFX 1.5 which of course is
a very cool program.
The Commodore booth was very unexciting. Standard machines running standard
applications. I'm sure it was all they could do to just make sure they had a
booth. But I wonder if all that expense was really worth it? After all, CBM was
showing apps. that the vendors themselves are showing on the show floor. The
CBM booth seemed to be the least packed area of the show at any given time. A
real yawner.
CD32 IS cool. Now, will the Sega and Nintendo type game makers write for it?
If not, it's doomed. It runs rings around most anything out there, so we shall
see if that's enough to get them interested. About this time next year, we
should have a really good idea.
If someone makes a killer game for it, that would really help. People have
been known to buy systems like this based on 1 killer game. The mpeg card might
be the key there, I dunno.
Overall, the show was good, informative. Lots of video cards (Picasso II,
Piccolo, etc) around to be seen.
Jim
The following was posted in comp.sys.amiga.advocacy by Kevin Roll …
—————-
Ahh, hard to believe that eight hours ago I was standing in the midst of
the World of Commodore Toronto… I took some notes during Lew Eggebrecht's
keynote address, here's what I thought was important. A lot of what he said
was old news as far as technical information, but there were some
interesting points.
The first part centered around CD32. As Darryl already reported, they have
just started making the NTSC units, and only had a few for the show.
Apparently half of the shipment got delayed at Customs. Lew reported that
CD32 is the number 1 selling CD platform in Europe. He also said that there
are 120 licencees developing titles, and that Commodore has spent
absolutely no money subsidizing any of them (as they did with CDTV). I
think this is very good news.
Next, he began to talk about the MPEG module, and how there are two
standards – Video CD and Philip's standard. He then stated that C='s
solution was to play them both, which brought a round of applause! The FMV
card is in production, with 2000 units expected by next week (kiss my ass
Barrett). The first round are all going to France, where they have a
guarenteed order for some large project (this last bit overheard from a rep
on the floor).
The discussion then turned to the AAA chipset. As previously reported by C=
employees, the first silicon has been made. Lew stated that it has > 95%
functionality already, and is "darn close" to completion. The wonderful
24-bit images are being blitted with incredible speed. He said that all 4
chips have tiny bugs that are being worked out. In the next 2 weeks, two of
the chips will go for second-pass silicon, with the other two being sent by
the end of January. Systems based on these AAA chips will be released on a
time schedule dependant on the performance of the second-pass silicon. He
hoped that this would mean around next fall.
As far as the systems go, Lew *confirmed* that the Intel PCI bus standard
has been chosen. This will allow a processor-independent architecture, with
the 68060 first and then an undetermined RISC processor later.
In other news, a cost-reduced version of the A4000 has been engineered and
released to manufacturing. Also, C= is pushing hard on the A4000T to get it
going. C= is working on the CD-ROM drives for the 1200 and 4000, with the
1200 having priority. Lew said that the 1200 would be internal, and the
4000 would be a Zorro card + external drive. The clincher was that the 4000
version would include the FMV card! He anticipated these models being
available next spring. Someone asked about the DSP technology – Lew
indicated that it had been licensed out, but that it would be on the
motherboard of the AAA systems. Also, as previously stated, AAA sound will
be 8-voice, 16-bit, 100kHz sample rate.
Lew then really freaked me out by telling us all that C= is already
looking *beyond* AAA. Their goal is to do real-time 3D rendering, with a
target of 30 million pixels/sec. To do this, they are designing their own
3D pipeline scheme. This is serious Silicon Graphics territory, and I was
amazed to discover they are planning this.
Someone also asked about Photo CD. Lew said that a license had been
arranged with Philips, but not executed yet. Development is underway, and
something will be out after the 1st of next year. The last question was the
eternal, "will there be a laptop Amiga?" Lew said there are no plans for
now, but as the AAA chipset is entirely CMOS, it lends itself much better
to that sort of thing. Now if they can get a 24-bit LCD…
As far as my initial impression of CD32, I thought it was great. The demos
and games they had available were certainly exciting. They had the dinosaur
morph demo that has been previously described, the flight demo, and four
games to be played – Pinball Fantasies, D/Generation, RoboCod, and
something else I forget. One other machine was playing a football game, and
an MPEG machine had a really cool game going whose title I never heard. It
was like a Fantastic Voyage theme, with the player cruising through an
artery blasting stuff.
The MPEG stuff they showed during Lew's talk was excellent. They had about
a 15-foot screen set up, and the clarity was brilliant. They were using the
Paramount Star Trek 6 CD for a demo, and it looked great. They also showed
the European commercial with the exploding robot, which brought another
tremendous round of applause.
Overall, the show was lots of fun. Commodore is certainly not dead, and the
CD32 looks poised to take off like a rocket. Throw in Zool, the Ninja from
the Nth Dimension dancing to the techno coming from Newtek's booth (Toaster
is God, repeat after me) and you have a recipe for fun. Also, I won a free
CD from SunRize and one of the PD houses had my game for sale. Well, I'm
babbling now so I'll conclude.
—
— /// A4000/040 |…../\ NEW RIVER |
AMIGA// Author: |…/ \O| GORGE |
\\\/// New World |../ | Bridge Day |
\XX/ |/ / \ '93 |
—————
-sja
Steve –
I've seen a couple of messages referring to the FMV card and think that it
is vaguely video oriented. Can you tell me exactly what it is?
– Joe
FMV = Full Motion Video.
FMV – Full Motion Video.
MPEG.
Feature-length movies on CD-ROMs. Most of the advantages of laser disks
(quality only about equal to VHS though) without the cost — significantly
cheaper than video tapes in fact. It is entirely possible that
pre-recorded VHS video tape is about to go the way of the vinyl albumn.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
"Significantly cheaper than video tapes…"
Hardly. Go out and price one of these CD-based movies. They are in the same
price league as laserdiscs. For CD-based movies to be priced the same or
similar to video tapes, they will have to enjoy the same economies of scale,
which won't be for years, if ever.
Jim
"…if ever…"
You really believe that? I can see that since there are so few CD-based
movies out there that the prices are high now. I would think that since
it's just an MPEG stream on the disc, it couldn't be that tough to master,
and the prices to make the discs would be a lot cheaper in the long run,
certainly cheaper than video tapes, and much higher quality.
…These movies are just MPEG video/audio streams on disc, right? Or did
I miss something?
Steve
Steve…
There is SO much more to the equation. Example:
I own a Sega Genesis. Throughout the life of the machine, the carts have cost
around 50 bucks, average. Now that Sega CD is out, the CD games are around 60
bucks, average. Why is that?
After all, the hardware in the cart is at least 20 times more expensive than
the hardware that makes up a compact disc. The Sega CD games are not going to
enjoy the economies of scale. But, even if they did, I doubt the price would
come down. After all, Sega knows that we'll pay 50-60 bucks for a CD game…so
why charge less? It can also be justified by it's new wiz-bang-ness…it's new,
it's CD, its high tech…thusly, there is a cost premium involved.
Also, people have said that MPEG is equal to VHS quality, or S-VHS. Well, I
tend to disagree (at least, the MPEG movies I have seen). First of all, the
conversion from the film to the MPEG stream is a frame conversion that is not
1:1. It's 24 frames per second being converted to 30 frames per second. You can
occasionally catch where this makes a difference. Also, MPEG by nature will
screw up some minor detail in images, when converting the frames. I watched
Star Trek Six on CD playing on the CD32, and there was clearly some artifacting
happening around the edge of someone's hands as they moved in a particular
scene. Minor, sure, but videophiles are NOT going to adopt this technology.
It's already been poo-poo'ed in the CEForum.
There are several odds stacked against the MPEG technology from a home video
point of view. If it is going to make it in the consumer market, a player has
to be made available that is dirt cheap. Maybe this WILL happen, since it
doesn't need to be able to record. Of course, the fact that it cannot record
might make it a less than desirable consumer product (for viewing movies only,
I mean). So, unless a cheap player comes out, it hasn't a chance in the
consumer market (again, strictly speaking as a movie player).
In the pro-sumer, videophile type markets, it's too low quality to bother
with. Laser disc is still the way to go, and unless a new technology emerges
that beats laser disc, videophiles won't be switching anytime soon.
This doesn't even take into account the whole structure in place for VHS
movie rental places, etc. Who is going to take the first step to get the
thousands of movies in stock that use this new technology, and will the movie
houses make their new titles available on videoCD?
Sure, it is all a wait and see kind of thing, but my money is against it. I
suspect it will go the way of digital compact casette, or CD+G. It's nifty,
it's keen, but to invest in a machine to play this new stuff just won't make
sense to the millions out there who don't care about CD-I, CD32, or anything
else that has these capabilities.
Jim
Jim,
The 24 – 30 frames per sec isn't really an issue. Look at a video tape
of a film in frame by frame mode. The film is converted to video by repeating
every 4th frame as the 5th frame. The same would be true for (or something
similar) any conversion of a 24fps film to the 30fps needed for NTSC video.
However, in my opinion, you're pretty close to the mark on the rest of
your posting. Until you can record your own FMV laser ROMs, tape will still
be quite plentiful. For a comparison…hasve audio tape recorders disappeared
with the advent of audio CD's? Of course not, and in their case…a typical
cassette tape is far, far lower in quality than a CD. In fact, that was the
impetus behind DAT tapes…to raise the quality while retaining the ability to
record.
Without the ability to record, magnetic type media (VHS, digital VHS,
etc.) will continue to be a major portion of the video marketplace.
CD32 may be a great seller as a game playing machine, but I don't see
it, or anything like it…becoming a replacement for a VCR. In fact, I believe
thaat pre-recorded movies on CD will become simply a curiosity, not a major use
of something like CD32. At best…that capability would be used to copy CD
video onto video tape.
Don
I never said that VCRs are going away. I said that Video Tape rental will
be going away.
The motivation isn't on the part of the consumer, it's on the part of the
video rental stores. They have to replace eaten tapes, rewind them, store
them, etc. CD-FMV has huge advantages in all these areas and is cheaper
to boot. They'll be pushing the change.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Dale –
Any notion as to seek/access time? One of the problems I noticed with
seek times on Laserdisc is you have a second or two lag. Would the FMV be
faster?
Is FMV a card with MPEG decompression that allows compressed video to play
from a CD-ROM?
And they are saying that it is imminent? (I tried three times to spell
that word and I think I've still got it wrong.)
– Joe
Seek times are the same as for any other CD. It can vary with the player,
I don't know details.
Yes.
Yes.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
There are supposed to be 50-60 movies out in the CD format. Thank
Phillips, which paid for the conversion.
//
-Karl \X/ Amiga and Autopilot: The *only* way to fly!
FMV = Full Motion Video …. It's a gizmo that can play back the video
from the CD. I believe it uses MPEG technology.
Steve