CompuServe Thread

#LW & Flicker

21 messages in this thread
#69938From: Alain BorgnerDec 8, 1993 4:17 PM
I would like to run LW in non-interlaced mode. I am told I could do it with LightRave and a video card. What video card should I get? Are there accelerated video cards (like the Supermac cards on the Mac)? Thanks, Alain
#69955From: Bruce RobertsonDec 8, 1993 9:28 PM
There are plenty of video cards (see the L/R ads) that will work. But I would be more concerned about heading down a blind alley. I suspect NewTek will put a better lock on LW next version out, which leave you stuck with no upgrade path. Perhaps NewTek will offer the next version of LW with changeable scan rates. Technically I think it's possible. Bruce Robertson
#69997From: Alain BorgnerDec 9, 1993 2:23 PM
I have not in mind running an illegal copy of LW. My only concern are my eyes. I had a look at LW on a friends toaster system, and I think it is impossible to model and animate on a interlaced monitor. Maybe I am spoiled from the SGI and the Mac, but it is a nice feature when you can make the decision on how big your work screen is, or have multiple screens where you can drag windows and change there proportions. To have a crisp and clear, flicker free non-interlaced monitor to work on is #1. I got very interested in LW since I have seen a list of its new features and the announcement of the screamer. But I would never consider working under this conditions. LW, at its current stage seems to me like one of this car-kits, like a Ferrari motor in a VW. Alain
#70013From: Marlene Zenker/SYSOPDec 9, 1993 4:55 PM
If you want to have a flicker free display, they're available. You have a variety of options, depending on the type of Amiga you're running Lightwave on. Many people do this. Steve
#70027From: John GrossDec 9, 1993 11:08 PM
I will say this again. You CAN run LightWave AS IT IS NOW on a flicker free monitor. You need a small product called a Flicker Free video card that goes in the Amiga and allows you to connect a Multisync monitor. This is how I and ALOT of people run their Amigas. Currently, with this version of LW, you cannot increase the size of the screen – you are limited to approx 700 X 480.
#70080From: Russell WilliamsDec 11, 1993 12:35 AM
Unfortunately, you CANNOT run lightwave as it is now on a flicker free monitor on an A4000. The Flicker Free card occupies the video slot, and the other solutions require the old chip set. When I don't have my toaster in my 4000, I use Commodore's A2320, but unless I buy an 800$ add-on which allows me to have 2 video slots, that's not a solution when I want to use my toaster. Someone please tell me I'm wrong, or there's another solution, because I think the flicker AND the non-scan doubled display both look horrendous.
#70082From: Erik FlomDec 11, 1993 12:55 AM
You're completely right!! Forcing Amiga 4000 owners to use interlaced mode for LightWave and Modeler is a travesty! I couldn't stand going back to 'Flicker-mode' on my 4000 when my new T4000 showed up. (In a way, I was 'lucky' that I blew up my 4000 motherboard! Since I had to wait 3 months for a C= replacement motherboard, the only option I had was to look into LightRave. For the last few months I have been blissfully modeling on my 4000 w/o the horrid flickering your complaining about.) The most galling thing is that if the T4000 dongle didn't _REQUIRE_ NTSC timing, there's _no reason_ LightWave and Modeler _need_ to run in 'Flicker-mode'!!!!!!! Thank you for the chance to vent my spleen. :^)
#70107From: Russell WilliamsDec 11, 1993 3:01 PM
It hadn't occurred to me before, but maybe LightRave is the way to go. 400 bucks and I'm in flicker free bliss. Without raising the hackles of everyone on both sides of the LightRave issue, does New Tek have any plans to allow users to run Lightwave without accessing the full toaster, even if it requires the toaster as a "dongle"?
#70177From: Erik FlomDec 12, 1993 8:55 PM
Unless you absolutely need it, the LightRave option seems to be a limited choice. I'm sure the next version of LightWave will be even more careful about checking for the Toaster dongle, and while Warm & Fuzzy might eventually hack the next revision, it'll be a continual game of cat and mouse. I'm not sure if the long term hassles justify the cost – especially considering the low cost of flicker fixers these days. (Then, there's always the 3000…., but no AGA. :^( I haven't heard anything from NewTek about anything that might be similar to LightRave, but I'm 'out of the loop' so to speak. :^)
#70113From: Jim SteeleDec 11, 1993 7:04 PM
What if you put a board like the Retina-Merlin-Piccolo-Spectrum-Picasso in the 4000? Wouldn't that effectively deinterlace the Lightwave display? It's an expensive solution, but might be worth it.
#70178From: Erik FlomDec 12, 1993 8:55 PM
My complaint is that there's no reason I should have to do that. LightWave works just fine, and doesn't need to run in interlace mode. Why should I have to spend a few hundred bucks for a flicker fixer to cirumvent a problem that was caused by NewTek themselves? (For no good reason that I can see.) Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom
#70195From: Russell WilliamsDec 13, 1993 12:28 AM
And keep in mind, YOU CAN'T USE A FLICKER FIXER ON AN A4000!! I have the A2320, which works great in the 4000, but uses the internal video slot. The only solution I know of is to buy one of those external boxes that have multiple video slots, and the cheapest price I've seen for one of them is 800 bucks! Obviously, the target audience is people who need a lot of slots, not some poor schmoe who needs to run a flicker fixer with the A4000. By the way, another question I have about LightRave is its anim format. The toaster's internal anim format seems to be much better in terms of playback (although not as good in file size crunching) than the other anim formats (better than 7 and of course, obviously better than the dog that is known as 8). With the toaster's format, I can generally pump out a good 30 fps even with a lot of screen changes, although a really high delta manifests itself as video distortions when I play it back from the switcher. I talked to New Tek tech support, and they said I could basically have the entire screen change if I rendered in low res (which I always do). I sent them a video tape of my screen distortions, and they're looking at it on Monday. I'll post to the world the results of that. But, getting back to the point, LightRave becomes useless to me if it doesn't support that wonderful Toaster anim (which New Tek seems bent on keeping proprietarary).
#70229From: Erik FlomDec 13, 1993 11:34 AM
Well, you could always render the RGB images out, and then compile them later using LightWave. Since I fried my 4000 motherboard and can't run the T4000 board in it, it's a moot point. :^( Sorry I can't answer your question. Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom
#70280From: John GrossDec 13, 1993 10:39 PM
LightRave CAN'T render in NewTek's Anim format. JG
#70283From: Stephen van der MerweDec 13, 1993 11:28 PM
I don't know if this helps any, but I'm running T4000 on a 4000 using a Commodore 1960 monitor with a Sync Strainer – everything looks pretty darn good. Hope this info helps. Steve [remembering that flickering screens can cause some folks to become epileptic]
#70269From: Jim SteeleDec 13, 1993 9:30 PM
Yeah, I see your point. It's surprising that they don't support the no-flicker modes of the 4000. But pehaps understandable from a technical view. After all, the Toaster depends on the NTSC timing of the Amiga's custom chips. It would probably go nuts if you fed it double-ntsc or productivity. Seems like they could figure out something for the Lightwave crowd who never use the Switcher. .Jim
#70309From: Erik FlomDec 14, 1993 12:00 PM
'Seems like they could figure out something for the Lightwave crowd who never use the Switcher.' AMEN! It's bad enough I have to fire up the Toaster dongle to get to LW, but to then be forced to run in flicker mode for no good reason?!? Oh well, I don't know why I keep saying this, but: Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom
#70201From: Paul ToalDec 13, 1993 3:35 AM
So…. What do we have to do to get flicker free on T4000? Will something like a Piccollo board do anything for us? –Paul < Motorola Inside >
#70230From: Erik FlomDec 13, 1993 11:34 AM
I really don't know. I guess if you ran a RTG board that allowed you to run std Amiga screens on it, then you could fire up Lightwave on that screen. (For some reason, I just get the feeling it wouldn't work though.) Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom
#70084From: Alain BorgnerDec 11, 1993 5:37 AM
John, Quote "You need a small product called a Flicker Free video card that goes in the Amiga and allows you to connect a Multisync monitor" Is 'Flicker Free video card' the exact name? I diden't find it in any of the adds from last month Amiga World. The closest I came is 'Flicker Free Video 2' from ICD Incorporated – is that the product? If not, where can I get it? B.t.w. I have a 4000/40. Thanks again (and sorry if I sound stupid – the Amiga is new to me) Alain
#70122From: Forrest McKinneyDec 12, 1993 12:53 AM
It is the ICD product, but it does not work with the A4000.