#HP 4P printer
41 messages in this thread
I've been looking for a driver for the HP4P and have not yet found
one – but I was able to use the driver for the HP4 series that I
found in the libraries here. Not perfect, but works reasonably well.
'Not perfect'
Uh, thanks, Betty <grin>
Besides having extremely hard to decipher documentation, what else
needs fixed or upgraded to make it better?
One thing that needs fixing in the driver – when using 8 lpi mode, I
have to make the top margin 2 lines instead of one. Gets a tad hard
to read the top of the first line when in 8 lpi mode <grin>.
I've only had the printer for a couple of weeks. The only real problem
I've had with the driver so far was that when we put it into 600 x 600
mode, it printed twice as large. We had to cut to 300 x 300 – which does
not make use of the better resolution available.
After all, Kelly – the driver I found in the libraries was not meant for
the 4P, but for the earlier HP4 series machines – or at least, that was my
impression from reading about them. And it worked great after we set the
300 x 300.
—Betty
Betty,
I beleive I know the problem. Others have had the same problem (Hi Gracia
<grin>)
Go to the printer's control panel and put it into 600 dpi mode. You have
it in 300 dpi mode.
In trying to keep the driver useable on a number of PCL5 compliant
printers (LJ3 and up), I didn't want to put too much printer specific
stuff into the driver. It is possible, using the Printer Job Language
commands to switch the printers mode from 300 to 600 externally, but not
all PCL5 compliant printers have this ability. PLJ doesn't exist for the
earlier LJ3 model printers.
Besides, I figure, sometimes you may not want some program taking control
of your printer.
If you have the memory, leave your printer in the 600 dpi mode. I am
downloading the LJ4P announcement right now to see if there may be other
concerns. For some reason, I did not notice the LJ4P announcement.
One thing, do not print pictures at 600 dpi. They will look like mud.
Use 300 dpi (you can leave your printer's control panel in 600 dpi). The
dither matrix CBM uses is too small (4×4) for 600 dpi. But if printing
text (such as from ProPage, etc), go ahead and use 600 dpi (densities 5 or
7). Output will look much sharper, with the only penalty being increased
print time.
73, Kelly
Kelly,
Thank you so much for the help – and also for the driver! I noticed only
this morning that the printer was set for 300. I've been using it mostly
with my Toshiba laptop and my genealogy program, and I had a driver to use
there. My son-in-law was using it from ProPage the other night and ran
into the problem with 600 resolution making the image twice as large. I
have not tried it myself. We'll change the resolution on the printer
panel next time.
I bought the plain jane model – 2M of memory, but upgradeable and I'm on
the track to find some relatively inexpensive SIMMS for it. Some friends
in my computer club are absolute wonders at locating bargains of that
kind. This computer can have a Postscript SIMM, too, but I doubt that I
will get one of those. I understand that they are quite expensive, and
that only the HP chip will work.
Even at 300 dpi, the output from this printer is fantastic. I'll be so
glad when I have learned more about it and can take advantage of all its
features.
—Betty
Betty,
I read the announcement for the 4P and 4MP. Sounds like a real nice
printer for the price. I am jealous of the paper handling capabilities
the 4P has over the 4. The ability to print 3×5 cards is fantastic,
especially for us Amateur Radio Operators. And wrinkle free envelopes is
nice, too.
From reading the announcment file, I am under the impression the 4P is not
upgradeable to the 4MP (postscript). The printers electronics are
upgraded to a faster RISC CPU. The 4L and 4ML are the same way – not
upgradeable, only tradeable. PostScript is nice. Much quicker printing,
especially with programs like ProPage.
You are not kidding the output at 300 dpi is fantastic. Blows the socks
off the 3P printer I used to have.
73, Kelly
>PostScript is nice. Much quicker printing
That is only because lame Amiga software chooses not to take advantage of
built-in fonts, etc., on any printers except PS — they print as graphics
to everything but PS. It's excusable where the software uses only the
Amiga Preferences Printer Driver, but where they send output to par: with
their own printer driver, it's just lame.
A 4P under Windows, for example, prints at least as fast, and generally
faster, than anything printing to PostScript, because the Windows printer
driver uses the built-in fonts and downloadable fonts which have less
overhead than their PS equivalents.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Dale,
You crack me up! <grin>
I remember reading a number of postings on here (or more specifically, in
AmigaVendor) from New Horizon about why they do not take advantage of the
fonts built into the printers – because the printer device is sorely
lacking in this department.
Right now, for a software vendor to take advantage of the fonts in the
printer, he would have to make a driver for his program to talk to every
possible printer in existence. Shades of DOS application programs before
Windows came along. I know next to nothing about Windows, and their
printer drivers, but it sounds like this is another one of the areas where
CBM had the right idea, but they got caught sleeping and were left in the
dust.
CBM is going to have to do something to address this issue. It is
ludicrous to expect a software vendor to make a thousand printer drivers
for his application program. Until CBM wakes up, we are stuck with slow
graphic printing, or using PS.
I hope CBM wakes up soon. Some of those built in fonts are nice!
73, Kelly
Given the popularity of Desk/LaserJets, I'd think that teaching apps how
to use them directly would solve the problem for 90% of the mid- to
high-end Amiga market (everyone that doesn't have PS has DJ/LJ). Sure,
it's a hastle for the apps people, but, having written PCL before, I don't
see why it'd really be that big of a deal…
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Dale,
I agree. If an application program can write to a postscript printer, it
shouldn't be too much harder to write to a PCL printer.
For a short while a couple of years ago, it looked like Gold Disk was
going to consider doing just such a thing in ProPage, but they did not.
73, Kelly
Kelly,
There is a Postscript SIMM available for the 4P, but I don't know the
price. I just read in the manual that it is available from HP, and that
only theirs works.
I'm playing with mine a bit more now that things are settling down a bit
here – addressed some envelopes, printed some Christmas letters on fancy
stationery, etc. It all looks wonderful. I'm really pleased with the
printer.
—Betty
Betty,
Good to hear there is a PS upgrade path. Would have been nice if HP had
mentioned this fact in the announcement file.
Using the CUSTOM paper size setting in the driver, you can handle all the
different sized medium, such as the 3×5 cards.
73, Kelly
I'm really looking forward to learning all the abilities of this printer –
but after Christmas. Until then, it's all just utility stuff for me.
Even the salesman told me that there was no PS for this printer – but the
manual says otherwise. Page 2-6 says that the Adobe Postscript Level 2
SIMM is HP part # C2049A, and the use of this SIMM is covered in a number
of chapters in the manual, about 25 pages about Postscript in all. I
agree – it should have been included in the announcement and
advertisement.
—Betty
I'm told that you also have to add RAM to get it up to 4M, minimum.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Adding RAM is not such a problem, though. A member of my club has a
printer like this one and he has been able to find the memory SIMMS at
very reasonable prices locally. There are compatible SIMMS from several
companies, he said.
—Betty
The salesfolk told me it costs about $600 to get the 4P up to postscript
compatability.
I hadn't even asked!
—Betty
Agree with Kelly, except:
temporary setting PJL parameters is a nice feature and is not a question
of the application program. Also, well written PJL drivers allow printer
spoolers to collect and specify print jobs. I haven't seen something like
this yet on the Amiga, except GoldDisks ProSpool wich uses the DSC 2.0 job
language (DSC is to PostScript what PJL is to PCL 5e). Even more, using
PJL a printer spooler can automaticly decide wich print job has to be send
to wich port. So far, the only well written PJL driver on the Amiga is
Studio.
Saying 600dpi graphics look like mud is true, but only for drivers not
performing a greyscale conversion and offering custom dither techniques
like Studio or TurboPrint does.
— Wolf Faust, Am Dorfgarten 10, 60435 Frankfurt, Germany —
Hi All
I've been interested in this thred as I have been thinking about getting a
HP 4P. I would like to know a bit more why printing graphics at 600dpi
looks like mud. Does this apply to using PostScript output as well.
-Gary
Gary Giles
Yap Yap all the way from the UK Via Autopilot
Gary,
Printing graphics in Postscript at 600 dpi look great. Go for the HP
LJ4MP. You will not regret it.
73, Kelly
Kelly,
Have you seen the Lexmark IBM 4039 10R?
It's' under $1500 and includes
2 meg ram
10PPM
RISC based
600 DPI
PCL5
POSTSCRIPT
FACE UP/FACE DOWN output
Built in tray for envelopes, heavy stock, 3X5 cards, etc.
Outstanding printer… built like a tank.
Michael, you are about a year too late – I have had my LJ4M for just over
a year now.
Sounds interesting all the same.
73, Kelly
To All,
I bought a TI Microlaser pro 600/23(stupid name, should have been
something like ML623). It is very nice, for it's price $1389 del.,
granted it only has 23 fonts, but once I got pagestream squared away to
download the missing "resident fonts" it works fine.
std.
6mg ram
risc
8 ppm
600 dpi
pcl/ps
it seems to have about 73 gray levels or resolution to me, but thats not
real scientific, as I just made a dither pattern w/ 80 steps. that is at
default lpi.
Matt Straney, 3 hours late, without your luggage
from Grand Ledge — on AutoPilot ——–>
>>3 hours late, without your luggage<<
Matt,
Why on earth would you have my luggage to begin with?
Wolf,
Yes, the 4×4 dither matrix is too small for good results at 600 dpi. But
I feel your 16×16 dither matrix is too large. The output looks like
something that came out of my 9 pin printer. Too many visible dots.
I doubt there are very many Amigas with shared LJ4 printers, thus not much
need for getting into the PJL commands.
73, Kelly
16*16 to large? Guy, I send you a sample to demonstrate 256 greyshades and
choose that big grainy dither because of several reasons. You didn't
believed me until I showed you!
Studio allows to define any matrix you like and sure there are smaller
matrices than 16*16!
Usualy, a 8*8 ordered dither works fine! Sure, not 256 greyshades, but the
difference between 64 and 256 greyshades is usualy not that visible (at
least with Amiga printer.device in mind 😉 And using a bigger dither size
doesn't do the job allone…
And than there are dithers like Floyd, Jarvis, Stucki, Blue Noise and
more… I hope to finish new dither stuff asap. So please, don't think I
only print using 16*16 classical halftone dithers!
And than PJL is not for shared printers (who claimed this?). For instance,
the fault described here printing 600 dpi with the printer set to 300dpi
would never happen if the driver would use PJL! Beside, what does a PJL
able spooler has to do with network printing? It's nonsense to think PJL
is only usefull to network printers! But you will be surpised how many
Amiga users have several printers connected to their Amiga! I assume >5%
of my regitered users! And that's what I talked about – not networks!
Please, get more info before claiming something like this…
— Wolf Faust, Am Dorfgarten 10, 60435 Frankfurt, Germany —
Wolf,
Settle down. And don't call me Guy. That is somebody elses name (yes, it
is a person's name over here).
I understand the sample you sent me was to show 256 greyscales. But I
couldn't see the forest thru the trees. ie. The visible dots were more
noticeable than trying to show 256 greyscales.
I will concur, the difference between 64 and 256 greyscales is not going
to be that visible, at least at the printer resolutions we are dealing
with. 1200 or 2400 dpi, the story is going to be different.
If you would like to send me an example using HalfTone/8×8 dither matrix,
I would like be happy to see it. If possible, print it from ProPage, to
Letter sized paper, with the box containing the image having margins 0.25"
from the edges of the paper. Then include the ProPage file into the
archive file.
Networked/shared – what ever. It all boils down to the same thing. And
what does having multiple printers on one Amiga have to do with anything?
You lost me there. Using PJL isn't going to solve anything in this
respect. Especially when only one of the printers has any idea what
PJL/PS/PCL means. I run multiple printers, too. You are getting the
smart switch boxes you support mixed into this somehow.
73, Kelly
wolf,
what software do you keep making reference to online here? is it for
the amiga? or do you use an emplant/a-max? what is the big dtp package in
Germany? just wondering, and waiting for pgs3.0
Matt Straney, 3 hours late, without your luggage
from Grand Ledge — on AutoPilot ——–>
Betty, Are you the same betty that was a sysop in the C64 area a few years ago?
I had wondered if the HP4 series all used the same driver. What
incompatibilities have you found? I still use WordPerfect for most of my text
use. I assume the HP Laser printer driver will still work there when I pick up
the 4p. Thanks, Chris
Chris,
Aren't you thinking of Betty Knight?
MICHAEL, YES, that's probably right. Chris
It is Betty Knight who is sysop in the CBMART forum – not I.
The only problem I've had so far with the HP4 driver from the libraries is
that it does not handle the 600 x 600 resolution in the HP4P.
I had no problems when using WordPerfect on my laptop, and with the driver
they supplied. Haven't tried it with WP on the Amiga yet. I've only had
the printer for a couple of weeks, and haven't had time to work with it
extensively.
—Betty
Betty, Thanks. Yes, it must be Betty Knight. Nice person! Ouch! Not 600 X
600. Hmmm. The 4P is the printer I've been waiting for. Use mostly
pagestream, and I saw a Pagestream driver in one of the files here. Expect
some kind of use with the Amiga WP driver. Best, Chris
Get 4MP, the 4p with Postscript support. You can use this from Pagestream
as well. You will want to use postscript whenever possible. And if you
can't for any reason, you still could use PCL 5.
Posscript is much besser than any Amiga Printer Driver.
If you have got >WB2.1 you have got a Postscript-Driver for Preferences.
… over the ocean
Jochen, Stuttgart, Germany with AutoPilot
Anyone have any idea which to choose between the TI $1349 8ppm 600dpi 6M
RISC PS/PCL printer vs. the 4MP (at about the same price with 2M less
memory and 4ppm)?
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Neither. <g> Right now, for about the same price, you can get a Lexmark
IBM 4039 10R 10ppm, risc, 600 DPI (PCL5 & PS) and it handles envelopes
and heavy stock very well.
I don't like the paper path of the TI (I've had an older model for 3 years
now and it tends to feed crooked and jam once in a while) and I just don't
see the value of the 4MP. The 4039 10R will accept standard HP font
cards.
BYTE just reviewed printers and said the Lexmark is slow for PS (slower
than either TI or HP) and recommended the TI over everything for PS
applications in that price range.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Well, I guess that's why you have to look at things for yourself. <g> Like
As I said, I've had a TI box for three years and I think it was the worst
computer related hardware purchase I ever made.
Dale,
For whatever it's worth, we've got 50 or so HP laser printers at
work…all the way from the LJII thru the LJ4, not one of them has even hinted
at a problem.
Don
That's what inclines me toward the HP even with less good stats at the
same price-point.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Chris,
Have you read all of this thread? Seems that I needed to set the printer
for 600 x 600. It was set for 300 by default. It's a wonderful printer,
Chris.
—Betty