CompuServe Thread

#Animation Bus. & Sales

15 messages in this thread
#73431From: John N. JordanDec 27, 1993 10:13 PM
I'd like to take a minute to jump in this thread (albeit late..). I am a college student, and I disagree with the rationale about no student discounts. Many realize that colleges are pretty much a distibution point of illegal and pirated software. This is true. One case in point was a guy I knew who had a (pirated?) beta version of 3DS R1. He then proceded to do some animation for a Real Estate promotional for the money it took to buy a good hardware system, including a Targa 64. What I do not understand is why then charge students full price, when they can go the free (but illegal) route and copy it from someone they know? Are you not encouraging pirated software, when you know full well that 90% of college students are spending all of their money on their education? I do not know ANY students who has that kind of money to spend on a software package that will not even be of benefit until they get a job using it. I think that software businesses are foolish to not give serious discounts to students. College students have the time available to learn (become hooked on) software. Then, once they get out into the businessplace, they are actually good at doing something. They are good entry level animators who are useful, but still underexperienced to demand more money. The only company I know that is doing this right is Borland. The Borland programming software is used by every Computer Science student, and *class* I know. Why? It's because it is cheap. Cheap, not poor quality. The professors like it because it is good software, and the students buy it because they can afford it. Students get it for about HALF OFF. And know what? I know more people who actually bought it than those who pirated it. 3DS could be the same way. As 3D becomes more universal, people will be looking for a good program to learn on. I bought Playmation. Why? Because it was good, and cheap. I spent $400 on Playmation. Why should I spend more on a learning tool? I don't have a $3,000 car, let alone enough money to buy a $3,000 software package. (or even $1000 for that matter.) I'll let my employer shell out that kind of money. I'll stick to the reasonable. What get's me is that R2, or even R1 is not sold to students. I would have gladly spent my $400 on R2. But for now, I'm thinking about upgrading to ProMation. They work with me. I might have to relearn to be useful in a 3DS running shop, but hey- that's your problem. I take all that I can get my hands on. It's just that 3DS is untouchable. (legally) I'm sorry if you got a raw deal. I just want you to know that not every student has pirated software, or SGI's that are out to do you in. Students want to do their job. Learn. I wish I had the right kind of tools to learn from, but I have to buy it all myself. Thanks for your time. JNJ
#73439From: Don LandisDec 27, 1993 11:23 PM
John, you make very good points to support my opinion that special discounts should NOT be granted just because someone is a student. What is a student anyway? I'm a student everytime I sit down to learn a new piece of software. So what is the difference? I'll tell you what you really are saying to me. You think because you are unemployed and a student that you should get discounts. Being self employed, when I take time out to learn new software I am essentially an unemployed student. Maybe you meant that because you are a student enrolled in an institution of higher learning that you should be granted special discounts. I fail to understand where you see the difference unless you really believe that while a person is learning software he should have it at discount and when he actually has learned it he should pay the full price? ? Do you think this would actually work? John, your arguments are weak for discounting software to students but sound more like you're looking for pitty or a handout because you think students have it so rough. I've been there, as a student, no help from parents either, I've also taught on the collegiate level and realized the financial constraints some students are under. But, I'll tell you this much, John, the most successful students are the ones that learn early on what it's like in the real world where one negotiates his offers rather than having them handed to him on a double edged sword. You know what I mean? >>I'm sorry if you got a raw deal I don't know what you are referring to but I work fine with the local students who use my output to tape services for their school animation projects. I give NO "student" discounts. Tips and tricks are free while they wait, though. One even sits here taking notes. Says he learns more in one hour here than a whole semester at school. From what I saw it doesn't surprise me.
#73440From: Gus GrubbaDec 27, 1993 11:48 PM
This sounds like a lot of whining. I went through six years of college without a single dime from anybody else. All the money I had to pay for tuition, housing, everything, I made myself while going to school at the same time. I first bought Autocad (it was version 1.6) when I was in the second year of school. I did it because I knew that's what I would want to do. Did it cost more than my car? I don't know. I don't care. I knew I would turn that into something useful and that was all that I cared. By the time I was in the fourth year, I had already made more money than most whiners in my class would have made in their entire life. Why? Because while they were spending all day and night trying to fix the world I was either in my dorm writing software or around the world selling it.
#73443From: Don LandisDec 27, 1993 11:53 PM
You're an example John should use as a mentor, not his communistic professors!
#73453From: Yost GroupDec 28, 1993 12:36 AM
3DSr2 Student Version — $250 3DSr3 Student Version — $500 Both are currently available. – G
#73471From: Judy WellerDec 28, 1993 9:16 AM
Out of curiosity, what is the difference ( other than price ) between the student version and the $3000 version? Judy
#73480From: Yost GroupDec 28, 1993 10:18 AM
I don't think that there's any difference, Judy. The point is to make the software available to students who can't afford it (at the most reasonable price possible). – G
#73495From: Gus GrubbaDec 28, 1993 12:46 PM
I don't think the student version can be used for profit.
#73514From: Richard M GoldDec 28, 1993 9:44 PM
RE: student pricing on 3DSr3. Great price, but remember that there are no upgrades available from this "locked" version. Just my $.02.
#73573From: Yost GroupDec 29, 1993 11:04 AM
Correct. – G
#73594From: Don LandisDec 29, 1993 1:20 PM
At $500 for release 3 , the way I figure Autodesk would reach a break even point in 54 months vs. selling at dealer cost. The "student" would buy a new upgrade each 18 months for the same price us non privledged people have to pay. I don't get the point of "non upgradable student versions" It's economically silly to even mention this limitation. The point is I'll recommend everyone attempt to buy student versions rather than full blown versions. Just go and enroll in a class somewhere. 3DS is being taught here in JAX for $35 per semester and student discounts for software purchase have been advertised. Let's see that's $535.00 for release 3. Not bad! Sorry dealers, Autodesk has just stabbed you in the back! I just got off the phone with one student / customer of mine and he just saved his dad $2500 by getting the student version. I think he won't be welcome at the dealer anymore.
#73633From: Ed KellermanDec 30, 1993 2:38 AM
Where do students purchase 3D Studio and what are the requirements (must they be taking a 3D Studio course at the time?). Is this same discount price available to Multimedia Instructors?
#73459From: James M. MurphyDec 28, 1993 2:01 AM
John N. Jordan, You might want to call AutoDesk at 800-525-2763 after they get back from sabatical in January as there is a student version of 3D Studio available and I think it's around $500.00. For what it's worth. James M. Murphy
#73490From: Angelo Guarino [DTI Inc]Dec 28, 1993 12:02 PM
John, There are student versions available for 3DS r2 and r3. They are limited in the sense that you cannot upgrade them automatically .. in otherwords .. your student status is check at every upgrade. There are 3DS dealers who focus on the educational market place (a sore point with me) who will be you source. Call Adesk MM division and find-out. Ang
#73536From: John K. JordanDec 29, 1993 12:33 AM
Hey namesake! >>cheap student software… To add my two cents, I can see validity in both sides of this issue. I have a son in college and I bought 3DS the hard way. My earlier comment to you about college still stands: "work butt off, get good grades, get good job, buy everything." However, A Humble Proposal… I think much goodwill and marketing wisdom would be accomplished AND much existing customer alienation would be avoided if Autodesk sold (or simply, gasp, gave away !!!) a "crippled" version of 3DS. Perhaps a limited 3DS that would render only to low resolution flics (or have a limited file size, or limited face count, or rendered slowly, or was missing some commands, or…) Anything to prohibit its use in a production environment. This way, all students could have access, learn, display their talent, and become great employees and loyal ADESK customers. The existing customer base would not have their livelyhood threatened by a flood of full-blown 3DS packages. 3DS would reign, Alias would die, and entropy would be reversed. <g> The cost of creating and testing a separate version would quickly be recovered in full package sales. (Ouch, Gary, no, stop!) Come to think of it, why limit this to students? (OK, everyone who got hooked on a bootleg, er, evaluation copy of 3DSr1 and then immediately went on to buy every version since, plus AniPro, etc, please raise your hand.) Could be the smartest thing Autodesk did since they hired the multimedia talent. JKJ