CompuServe Thread

#Heat Problems in Mines

13 messages in this thread
#155324From: CHRIS TREDWELLNov 24, 1994 11:47 AM
Steve, I'm putting your name on this as you are a geophysicist and it seems your field. I was in the Valenciana mine a couple of days ago, about 500 mts below the collar, in a dead-end tunnel. Where there was natural air circulation, the temp was about 18 deg C; where the natural ventilation stopped, the temp jumped to 30 C, continuing to about 60 C (140 f) near the end of the tunnel. PHEW. The funny thing was that the increase was not constant along the tunnel: there were hotter and cooler zones, lasting between 1 and 3 mts each, so sharpley defined that you could have have ruled them off with a chalk line. Can someone explain the reason, please? The mine manager explained how the "ancients" (miners of the 1600's to 1800's) dealt with the ventilation problem in a blind tunnel and showed me an example: they built a very solid stone wall 50 cms thick from floor to ceiling, right down the center of the tunnel, stopping just before the work face. This must have created a circular air flow. We could not test the system as the wall had been perforated in places by later miners, and the tunnel was no longer blind. Any comments? Chris
#155326From: Stephen RylandNov 24, 1994 12:07 PM
Chris- Well, my geothermal courses are some years behind me. However, you have the natural geothermal gradient and when you get down to 300m in mines my experience shows around 34C when non ventilated. You may have read about the SouthAfrican mines where one of the main costs are refrigeration plants for the air which at 2000m would be 40-50C without ventilation. Now for, the alternating hot/cold-if you are in sulphide vein areas you would be having oxidation of the sulphides with heat release-it is exothermic reaction, no? This could be part of it. OR, it may be a result of partial ventilation with "pulses" of new air mixing with old air. I hadn't heard about that old wall method but it makes sense. I will consult a mine ventilation book (yes, there are several books on the topic) to see if they have more profound answers, tommorrow. If my number two scenario is correct, maybe these are spots for further exploration. Steve
#156057From: Steven BrooksNov 28, 1994 7:43 PM
Hello, May I ask which ventilation book you use? I have the Hartmann book, which is not too bad. Steve Brooks
#155498From: Doug MitchellNov 25, 1994 4:40 PM
Hi, Chris– Bearing in mind Steve's suggestion that reactions in the ore might have been producing heat, did you smell anything unusual thereabouts? Did you feel the rocks to get a notion of their temperatures, and were they zoned similarly? Can you tell if these temperature zones move about with time? –Doug
#155880From: CHRIS TREDWELLNov 27, 1994 9:04 PM
Hi, Doug >>smell anything unusual thereabouts? No, no smells, fatal or otherwise; confirmed by mine manager, who was with me. >>Did you feel the rocks.. Yes, feelies all along the tunnel. In general the rock was very roughly about 10 deg. less than the air temperature; however, I was unable to identify "zoning" of the temperature. In other words, the rocks seemed to get steadily warmer in a consistent manner, without abrupt changes, unlike the air. >>Can you tell if these temperature zones move about with time? The truth is that it was so hot that we got out as fast as possible.The mine manager, who has to visit this area frequently, says that he has not noticed movement of the temperature zones, but also that he is mainly interested in doing his job as quickly as possible and getting to cooler areas. One side of thee tunnel is the lode's hanging wall and the other is mainly vein stockwork with a lot of quartz vugs. All the walls/roof are flaking off constantly, like cornflakes, presumably because of the pressure. The miners, who have to push this tunnel to a new reserve, normally strip off, cover their bodies with mud and work 20 – 30 mins before taking a break in a cooler area. Doug – a non-geo question: I use DOSCIM with OS/2. All works perfectly, with the exception of "Search Membership": the results of the search are always shown as garbage (ascii characters) and are therefore illegible. Any ideas, please, please? Chris
#156253From: Doug MitchellNov 29, 1994 10:44 PM
Hi, Chris– Those hot/cold air spots are puzzling if the rocks were not providing the differentials. Maybe the ceiling or floor rock had the hot spots, or did you feel them also? I do not know what would bollix the terminal emulation used in member directory searches that would not also foul up other CIM functions. How does GO BILLING look (to pick another terminal emulation function (that is free of connect charges) at random)? Perhaps CIS was simply fouled up in that area one day (did you try on different occasions?); I tried GO DIRECTORY myself and on initiating a search got a message saying the service was not available at the time – because they took it off while they fixed it, maybe? Oops, double-take, you likely meant "Special" "Search Membership" in the forum menus. Well that works fine for me, and does not involve terminal emulation. If that is what fails, I am still curious as to whether it repeats on separate occasions, and whether it occurs in other forums (maybe you can try it in connect-free GO PRACTICE, though it may be disabled there). Since I have few ideas, you may want to use connect-free GO CIMSUP – they should have a better idea in the DOS CIM support forum. –Doug
#156851From: CHRIS TREDWELLDec 3, 1994 5:53 PM
Hi, Doug, >>Maybe the ceiling or floor rock had the hot spots.. I did not test the ceiling or floor rock for heat variations. This will have to wait for next time down. Membership search: I was referring to the "search membership" menu in DOSCIM "MAIL" menu – not in forums. I do not get any garble with Terminal Emulation and a suggestion from a member of the CIMSUP forum to use GO DIRECTORY works fine. I thought that I had a configuration anomaly in my OS/2 set up. Actually, I still have not been able to find the person I was looking for: Carol Smith, who is one of the organizers of the Denver Mineral Show. The search results in "not enough info". Can anyone help? I know she looks in on the this forum. Regards Chris
#157043From: Doug MitchellDec 4, 1994 11:30 PM
Hi, Chris– Since I had built a "GO DIRECTORY" into my Favorite Places, I had not noticed that newer "Search Membership" item in the "Mail" menu of DOS CIM. I tried it looking for "C Smith" in CO, and got a list (best match was one Carroll Smith in Colorado Springs) with no trouble. There are lots of Smiths in this forum's own membership directory, but no Carol. Perhaps Carol is sharing an ID with another family member, and may be entered in directories under that other name – know any other family names? –Doug
#157842From: Lanny R. ReamDec 10, 1994 2:38 PM
Hi Chris, Carol's address is 70724,3617. And by the way, she and Bill have sent you a present (which you would have known about already if I hadn't messed up your address on some e-mail). Lanny
#157900From: Dr. Rodney K. BurroughsDec 10, 1994 9:26 PM
Hi Chris, This may be a late response but your question regarding Carol Smith might be best answered by contacting Dr. Peter Modreski, Internet:pmodresk@GCCMail.cr as he and his wife, Regina, are both very active in the Denver Gem & Mineral Show. Rod
#158036From: CHRIS TREDWELLDec 11, 1994 8:42 PM
Hi, Rod Thanks for the message; actually, I have just received a letter from Carol and Larry Ream has sent me her E-mail address, too. I am filing Peter Modreski's address – I am sure I shall want to use it in the future. Regards Chris
#157224From: CHRIS TREDWELLDec 6, 1994 9:12 AM
Hi, Doug, >>Maybe the ceiling or floor rock had the hot spots.. I did not test the ceiling or floor rock for heat variations. This will have to wait for next time down. Membership search: I was referring to the "search membership" menu in DOSCIM "MAIL" menu – not in forums. I do not get any garble with Terminal Emulation and a suggestion from a member of the CIMSUP forum to use GO DIRECTORY works fine. I thought that I had a configuration anomaly in my OS/2 set up. Actually, I still have not been able to find the person I was looking for: Carol Smith, who is one of the organizers of the Denver Mineral Show. The search results in "not enough info". Can anyone help? I know she looks in on the this forum. Regards Chris
#156056From: Steven BrooksNov 28, 1994 7:43 PM
Hello, Excuse me for interupting, but I may be able to shed some light as to why they put the divider down the middle of the drift. Dividing a drift with a tunnel is an easy way of creating a pathway for the air to follow in a drift. It allows the air to spit and follow the natural ventilation pathways. One side of the divider will have a lower pressure, so the air will naturally go in that direction. This practice is still used today in single entry drifts, only today we use vent-tubbing or brattice line and curtains. It helps to have booster fans to assist the airflow, but it's not necessary. The increase in temp may actually help the flow, as the air will naturally go towards the higher less dense air in the end of the drift. I hope this helps, Steve Brooks