CompuServe Thread

#The 10 Suggestions

9 messages in this thread
#176806From: Robert GriffithDec 8, 1994 1:31 AM
Hi Steve; You wanted quotes from the founding fathers to support that they wanted a Christian Country. Many people have told us what the the Constitution says and would have us belive that our founding fathers wanted seperation of church and state. I will show you quoits from the founding fathers that prove that this is not what they wanted. This is the first I will send more as I have time to find them. FROM WASHINGTON'S FAREWELL ADDRESS, 1796: "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness – these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."
#176846From: Erik FlomDec 8, 1994 12:14 PM
PMFJI, BUT……………… Nowehere in the quote do I see the word 'Christian'. I see the word 'religion' used, but you must remember that 'Christian' is only a SUB-SET of 'religion.' Erik Flom
#176870From: Robert GriffithDec 8, 1994 1:48 PM
Erik; You will see the word Christian as I send more quotes and you will see what the founding fathers were thinking. Robert // \X/
#176929From: Paul IdolDec 8, 1994 5:17 PM
Robert- So why didn't he just say Christian every time he said religion? And even so, you're making the assumption that the founding fathers were all universally infallible, which, so far as I know, is a property reserved to god in the christian cannon. Paul – wearing my black construction paper funeral suit
#177037From: Karl F. KugelDec 9, 1994 1:15 AM
He isn't arguing that they are infallible, he's arguing that the intent of the establishment clause isn't a total separation of Church and State, because none of the Founding Fathers would have wanted (or approved of) such a thing. And Washington didn't NEED to say Christian, in his day there was no significant competing religion in this country. -Karl
#177291From: Steve SetzerDec 10, 1994 9:34 AM
Robert, What I get from the those statements, acknowledgment that some of the properties and practices in religion are of value. I don't argue that, there are many redeeming qualities and unquestionable morals set forth in christiananity, Thou shalt not kill, steal, ect. But I see nothing here that qualifies as "Christianity is The National Religion of The Unitied States of America" How did I get in this debate? I usually stay ten miles from reliigous topics! ..Steve Cruising on Autopilot from beautiful Coastal South Carolina
#177339From: Robert GriffithDec 10, 1994 4:51 PM
Steve; You got into this because you said that you did not think that the founding fathers wanted a Christian country. I will be uploading more quoits to prove my point soon. Robert // \X/
#177421From: John DraperDec 11, 1994 4:20 AM
Fascinating, and especially so when you consider that Washington was a deist. -larry
#177496From: Paul IdolDec 11, 1994 5:17 PM
Such considerations don't enter into the minds of radical conservative Christians. Paul – wearing my black construction paper funeral suit