#Intro
10 messages in this thread
Hey –
I just wanted to introduce myself and say thanks for the dedicated forum on
DTV. My name is Dennis Hoffman, and I work for Avid Technology. I am the
Storage Product Manager for the company. I am extremely interested in any and
all comments about your experience, concerns and needs regarding storage
solutions for Desktop Video systems (Avid or otherwise). And I will be happy
to answer any questions I can regarding general video storage or Avid products.
One warning: my knowledge of computer storage seriously outweighs my knowledge
of the video production industry… but we're all here to learn, right. I
welcome the interchange.
Hi Dennis!
Boy you are just what the doctor ordered. What are the fastest SCSI II
Fast drives available now that you are aware of. RAIDs that act as a SCSI
II Fast device are acceptable! Thanks in advance…
-John
Hi John,
>>>what are the fastest SCSI II
Fast drives available now that you are aware of.<<<
PMJI…. But as far as I know the Seagate Baracudas are about the fastest out
there right now. But remember that is all subject to cange without prior
notice….and it will the day after you buy it :-)))
Regards,
Michael W. Towe
Falcon Video Productions
Santee Ca.
The fastest traditional hard drives (regular, fast SCSI-2 narrow) we know of
are the IBM Ultrastar 4GB 3.5" drives. They easily sustain transfer rates of
4.5MB/sec off the inner sectors. They are slightly faster than the Micropolis
and Seagate 4GB products, in that order. 4GB is now the smallest we deal with,
so I don't have any numbers on the smaller drives. I'm positive they're
slower, though.
btw- Seagate has a "two-head" product in the 2GB capacity range which is even
faster – but it's a lot more expensive, especially per GB.
Arrays can be really confusing. Maximum performance can be limited by whatever
SCSI bus you're on, and quite a few companies make products which can almost
pin that. For example, take a wide SCSI bus and two of the aforemetioned
narrow IBM drives and use any of a number of vendors' software to stripe the
drives (technically not RAID but called RAID Level 0 by many) and you can bump
performance up to the 8-9MB/sec range (on a wide bus). Now swap out those
narrow drives and substitute two WIDE Ultrastar drives and you will see between
12 and 15MB/sec SUSTAINED. Burst data transfers from a pair of these drives or
a pair of the 2-head Seagate's or the Seagate Elite-9 (9GB drive) seem to be
clipped at around 17.3 MB/sec leading us to conclude initially that we are
hitting the practical limit of Wide SCSI.
There are additionally a number of hardware-based RAID solutions which have
varying levels of performance and added features at the various levels, most
notably data redundancy or parity. But none of these solutions will
meaningfully outperform two or three software striped drives – at least in our
application, unless you get really fancy (and expensive).
Having said all this – please take note: if the rest of the system (SCSI bus
host adapter, codec, internal cpu bus and memory management system) can't
handle that data rate – screaming storage doesn't do you any good TODAY.
Nonetheless, I have a recommendation that I always give Avid storage customers.
Do not buy a single MB of storage today, unless you absolutely need it. Then
and only then, buy the fastest, largest thing you can. That is the only way,
until our industry matures, that you can maximize the useful life of the
product before the inexorable technology curve trys to obsolete it. And as it
becomes obsolete, it is not reasonable to expect the vendor to somehow take it
back or upgrade it. So protect yourself as much as possible and then just
accept the nature of this fascinating industry.
I hope that helps.
Dennis,
Thanks for the informative and concise response. So Fast SCSI Narrow
Drives today can sustaing 4.5MB/sec? Is there a "peak" that you are aware
of? The reason that I ask is because the NewTek Video Toaster Flyer,
which requires Fast SCSI Narrow Drives, says that at points, in the
highest quality mode (>6.00 MHz @ -3db w/56dB s/n ratio), the Peak Data
Rate can be up to 8.0MB/sec. They are recommending, specially modified,
2GB IBMs, 4GB and 9GB Seagates as Flyer compatible drives.
-John
John
what I was giving you was sustained data rate off the inner partitions for
single drives. The data rate on the outer partitions is significantly higher,
and in the case of the 4GB IBM's, they definitely sustain about 8 on the outer
sectors. Now remember, drives do burst data much faster than they sustain it.
Depending on the kbyte size of the peak the Toaster demands, a given drive may
be able to deliver the data straight out of buffer at very fast speeds.
I don't know what the "special modofocation" is, sometimes just marketing hype,
but it sounds like the safe answer is to stripe a pair of 4GB drives (IBM or
Seagate or Micropolis). Striping will give the user very high sustained data
rate across the drive and presumably should eliminate media management issues.
Right now, you can get something like this from FWB, MicroNet and APS (and Avid
customers can get it from Avid for less). But I can't promise compatibility
with the Toaster. I really know very little about it.
Aha,
Thanks for clearing that up, I was thinking that the figures that you
quoted were at the top-end, not the low-end… inner vs. outer cylinders.
Is striping similar to formatting?
-John
No, formatting is a low-level process used to physically map out the surface of
the platters in the drive – for a 9GB drive it takes hours. Striping is an
installation process where you download firmware to the drive telling it how to
behave, who it's talking to, etc – for a pair of 4GB drives it take 10-15
minutes. It's similar to installing partitions. Some formatting utilities, in
an effort to be user friendly and reduce bells and whistles, bundle the two
processes into one "button", so when you install you also format – this is true
for all floppy drives – but not many hard drives anymore.
Dennis,
waitaminnit, striping a drive? Wassat?
Something new every logon…
Patrick.
Striping is the term used to describe the process of setting up two or more
drives to work as a single drive. With software only or combo hw/sw products,
you can "stripe" data accross two or more drives instead of loading it all onto
just one drive. This allows the multiple drive group to read data (or play
video) much faster than a songle drive could because they can work in parallel.
This function is sometimes referred to as RAID Level O.