#Flyer HD$$ all the same?
13 messages in this thread
Are the flyer HD prices all the same, or is it worth it to shop around to
various vendors handling them?
Computer Basics is charging (not sure if it includes the external case and all
necessary cables).
2GB: $1895
4GB: $2795
Brian Jones, I too am tyring to figure out the best way to go on drives and
very little information. From what I have heard from two different people that
already have Flyers…it is not as picky about drives as we are being led to
believe.
I am going to ship my Micropolis 1.7 gig to one of these folks to see if it
will work OK. As far as the 2gig IBM drives and the 4Gig Seagate, ….they are
available for significantly less from other sources (check an issue of Computer
Shopper), Regards, Gary
Gary,
Re; Flyer HDs.
As I understand it, the software that is currently shipping (.9) will check for
appropriate firmware of the drive during installation. Once installation has
been accomplished, ANY SCSI HD can be attatched to the system, but nobody seems
to know whether these other drives will perform properly when xferring large
amounts of video data. I am also aware of the lower HD prices from other
sources, but I suspect that most of us who have been waiting anxiously will pay
the higher price for the minimum configuration and add less expensive drives
down the road.
I know of at least two local distributers of large capacity drives who are
willing to let me test their product for Flyer compatibility. Once those drives
pass the test, they will be heavily advertised at substantial discounts.
Frank
Gary,
Isn't it possible that the reason NewTek is being picky about which drives to
use is for what can happen over a long period of time.
For example, let say you hook up any large GB drive to the Flyer and you load
some video and it work. But, then after some time, let say that you have almost
all of the drive loaded with files. This could make a difference in how
different drive react. Maybe the search time differs.
I always thought that one drive was the same as another as long as the search
speeds were the same. But, then I loaded the Quantum drive on my Toaster and
the ANIM would not play back. Reason? Commadore told me that the cache on the
Quantum created some problems with the Amiga.
At the time, nobody told me that the Quantum was not fully compatible. Now,
when I mentioned this program to Computer Basics, they are aware of the
problem. Although, I will now be able to use my Quantum drive as my C drive
since the video will be on the GB drives.
But, in order to get the ANIM to work, I had to change the MAX TRANSFER rate.
That could be the reason for using just certain drives with the Flyer.
I would be interested in hearing the results of the test you are trying. Having
someone check out your drives on their Flyer system. But, you should have them
load up the drive as much as possible and do all kinds of things to kind of
push the drive to the limit.
I've ordered the 2GB and the 4GB. I figure at least I know that these will
work. Later, I might try another brand for a third drive. If for some reason
that 3rd drive gave me problems, at least I'd have two drive that did work and
a working system.
Fred
Fred, As you have stated your Quantum Drive did not work right off the bat. I
am inclined to agree that it's safer to go with the NewTek approved drives…..
but a 2 gig IBM through Computer Basics is abot $600 more than it can be had
for elsewhere!!! This is a serious chunk of change in my book, especially when
you are talking about a multiple drive system.
Today I sent off my Micropolis 2217A/V to a friend with a beta Flyer….we'll
see what happens. Regards, Gary
To all in this discussion about Flyer HDs:
Just look at it this way, NewTek says the flyer is an on-line system.
With all of us reluctant to fork over inflated prices for HDs, that
statement becomes MORE accurate. Since we won't buy enough space to
dump all of our material and then edit from the start on the flyer, we will
probably
offline some other way (even if this process is only slightly more than logging
the tapes), and then dump our choice material to the flyer to "online" edit it.
The "online" sales hype comes true, but for the wrong reasons.
BTW, I haven't seen it mentioned in any discussions lately (could have missed
it),
but "Bob", while demoing the Flyer at VTE, said that the RS422 ports would take
time code during capture and that if you did this, those numbers are what you
would
see in the clip edit windows, rather than just a start time of 0 and and end
time
equal to the duration of the clip. What I am not clear on is if this is a 1.0
feature,
or one of those that has been pushed into "V x.x at some later date when all of
the
neat stuff we have told you will actually be in there".
I was under impression that it was, but I don't know for sure. Anyone know?
Brian, The SMPTE support will not be a part of version .9. According to a
letter drom
NewTek, it will be in V.1.0.
GK
Gary,
After I post my message to you, I read the message that you got from Frank. He
kind of said the same thing I did, but a little more succinctly.
But, please keep me informed of the results of your test.
I agree, $600 is a goodly some of money. In fact, that is about the difference
that the 2GB hard drive is now going to cost me vs the cost that I had first
been quoted. $500 actually.
As I recall, when I first installed my Quantum drive it worked just fine. It
was when I started running full 5 second ANIMs that it started stuttering. And
it was intermittent.
Fred
Hi Brian –
At present, Newtek says they are providing the only drives that work. As
soon as the Flyer prebooks are satisfied, they will be putting more drives
into other channels, and have plans to continue to certify more drive
models. It should be noted that the drives require to have both the
correct model number and the correct firmware revision. The firmware is a
joint project between Newtek and the manufacturer.
In order to be sure the drives are the correct model and revision, they
have set the formatter, which is required to format the disks with the
Newtek file structure, to check for the correct model and revision. If it
doesn't find it, it won't format the drive. I guess they don't want bug
reports or technical support calls caused by the use of drives that don't
perform to spec.
As of today, Newtek is preparing to ship the prerelease .9 Flyer systems
tomorrow (Dec 28), and has already started delivering Flyer drives to the
distributors who support Amiga. I don't believe Flyer drives will be
available from other sources for some time.
I'll post any changes on this as they occur.
By the way, most distributors are providing a two-bay chassis with every
pair of hard drives as part of the package. And all cables should be
included. However, this chassis has no room for expansion and most Flyer
owners will want to add a CD-ROM and tape backup system soon. And
eventually more harddrives, if only for audio.
Naturally, I'll probably have a whole new set of information tomorrow.
Hank
Hank/Videology Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all
circumstances.
Thanks for all that info that a few gave, but I know all that. What I am asking
is this:
is NewTek setting a fixed price for the approved drives that all are selling
them for?
Although all drives have to be approved, are all approved drive sources selling
them
for the same price? In other words, should I just buy my HDs from the same
source as
the Flyer, or should I go to another NewTek distributor that is selling the
drives
at a lower price. Is this clearer, or did I just muddy my question.
I think I got your drift. Newtek is selling the drives to distributors
for whatever price the distributors can negotiate. They are publishing a
suggested retail price (SRP) for the model. The distributors can then
negotiate with their customers (your dealers) to get the best price, based
on quantity, they can get. Then it's up to the dealers to set a selling
price, and adjust it for competition. Each dealer has to determine his
own margin based on his overhead in selling tbe product. Naturally,
support is a large part of the equation and quantity also plays a part. As
a buyer you have money, so the dealer wants your business, but at present
you may find it difficult to locate drives that can really be delivered.
Before you start quoting prices, be sure of the availability, since not
every dealer can sell all the drives. Each dealer will have some, and you
can be sure he will want to support his prebooks first.
Since the fair trade laws are against hit. Newtek cannot set the prices
that the drives are to be sold for, so their is a free market adjustment
based on price and availability. It is my guess that at this moment
availability will take precedents over price. It will be not how cheap
you can get them, but whether you can get them at all.
Let me know how you make out. As a dealer in CT, we are looking for
alternative sources for our customers and have distributors that have
agreed to loan us disks to see if they will work. The key really, seems
to find out what firmware rev of each drive the Flyer needs. We expect to
get that information from Newtek soon.
Good Luck –
Hank
Hank/Videology Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all
circumstances.
Brian,
Re; Flyer HDs.
As I understand it, the software that is currently shipping (.9) will check for
appropriate firmware of the drive during installation. Once installation has
been accomplished, ANY SCSI HD can be attatched to the system, but nobody seems
to know whether these other drives will perform properly when xferring large
amounts of video data. I am also aware of the lower HD prices from other
sources, but I suspect that most of us who have been waiting anxiously will pay
the higher price for the minimum configuration and add less expensive drives
down the road.
I know of at least two local distributers of large capacity drives who are
willing to let me test their product for Flyer compatibility. Once those drives
pass the test, they will be heavily advertised at substantial discounts.
Frank
PMFJI – Newtek indicated to me that the formatter software, which prepares
the drives with a special file format for the Flyer, will be checking each
drive it formats. If the drive doesn't match on both model and firmware
rev, the formatter will stop.
Since each drive has to be formatted into the system, this would seem to
preclude anyone using a different drive for now.
I'll be talking to Newtek again tomorrow and update my understanding if it
changes.
Hank
Hank/Videology Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all
circumstances.