#Post Prod. Start-Up
10 messages in this thread
I'm planning on starting a small production company, and am very intrigued
by the Toaster. The info packet I just received (I'm still waiting on the
demo tape) mentions a PC version and I'm wondering if my 386SX/16mhz/3mb
RAM clone is powerful enough to operate the software (would a co-processor
help, maybe more memory?) or should I look at the Amiga workstation
version. Money is a consideration, but I'm also concerned about software
features and efficient equipment performance.
I'm also wondering about Hi-8 or S-VHS. Is Hi-8 the better way to go? I'm
unfamiliar with these formats (I'm use to working with Beta SP and 1") and
I don't know what the up and coming industrial format is, though I sense
it's Hi-8. Are there any Hi-8 decks being built with integrated TBC's?
I'm just beginning to gather information, so any other information
regarding editing decks, tape stock, equipment sources, tape duplication,
even the names of some good magazines to subscribe to would be greatly
appreciated.
Thanks in advance. Scott S.n
Hi Scott–it sounds like we are starting very similar undertakings. My
understanding is that the PC version of the Toaster is still a ways off,
and that it is essentially an Amiga in a box. For my application, I decided
to go ahead and buy a complete Amiga system and Toaster 2.0. Now if I can
only find one in stock somewhere next week!
I'm going to be using a Hi-8 camcorder, and probably editing in 3/4" SP.
Let me know how you progress on your system–I think both of us are in for
an interesting, but entertaining experience!
I haven't used hi-8 much, but have asked every professioanl I have met, and
the response is generally the same. Hi-8's main problem is that it doesn't
hold up to the stress of editing. It seems to be a great format for
acquisition, but people who use their tapes more than a couple of times
want something that doesn't show drop-outs as much. The other guy who
responded to your message seems to be on the right track (personally, I
couldn't see 3/4" die off soon enough).
Erik Flom, (Opinionated Toaster User)
That seem's to be the consensus of people I've asked too. Sony has just
come out with a second line Beta SP System that I'm going to look into. I
haven't seen the prices yet, but I just can't stand the idea of working to
3/4" (though that's where I may end up yet). Thanks for your input.
Scott S.
Erik, regarding your statement,
(personally, I couldn't see 3/4" die off soon enough).
That's all well and good if you can afford BetacamSP or MII, or D-2 for
that matter. But I think that you might give some folks up here on the
forum the wrong impression about 3/4. Yes I will concede that 3/4's "color
under" format is an older technology with some drawbacks in multi
generation use, but with the RIGHT gear (3/4SP and stable transcode of
aquisition materials from Hi-8 or "S") you can get excellent results on a
budget. On my JVCCR850 you can even adjust the luma shift for the number of
generations you will be working to and practicly not tell any difference
from your original materials. If you are using computer generated graphic
images and carefully monitor your use of the hotter reds and blues (which
are usually illegal NTSC anyway) you can get results that are far superior
to any Hi-8 or "S" edit format. The trick is to use 3/4SP (and SP tape
stock). Mods can now be done to your existing 3/4 gear to bring them into
SP specs for under a grand (well under for source record VTRs). I wouldn't
be so ready to cast off the 3/4 format until there is something as
affordable to replace it (before you flame on about Hi-8 or "S", I think
you should consider that I am talking about something that will hold up to
edit duties). My modest setup uses Hi-8, "S" and 3/4SP for aquisition, then
3/4SP AB roll to MII editor, then transfer to 1" C format for duplication
or broadcast. Someday I hope to have BetacamSP, but obviously don't have
the deep pockets (or component switcher) to make that move and still
maintain my market niche as an affordable independent AV producer.
Frank
My comment re: 3/4 video is based on experience between 4-15 years ago. I
have never seen SP in action, much less used any recent 3/4" equipment. I
think it is a good viable format – if you already own it.
Again, I have been out of the market for a few years, so my concept of
pricing may be out of date. 3/4" used to be fairly pricey – I don't know
how it compares to new "S" & Hi-8 eqpt now.
Another complaint about 3/4" is the size and cost of the media. The benefit
of the increased size though, is seen in lower noise and increased
durability, especially during extended shuttling and repeated use. I have
had trouble with wear on both S-VHS and Hi-8.
Your comments about 3/4" are quite valid, but I 'personally' would steer
someone away from 3/4" as a new purchase.
You are very estute in your observations regarding the "pricey" aspect of
3/4 as new equipment. My aquisition of 3/4 has come via the used market
where there has been a lot of movement (downward in price) recently. The
"SP" modification increases bandwidth and therefore lines of resolution, SP
spec on my decks come in at just a shade under 400 lines in color,that's
without having to deal with transcoding as in Hi-8 or "S". Another
advantage to the SP seems to be the near total absence of the "grungy"
horizontal smear that is usually so evident on titles and other computer
graphics when using standard 3/4. A lot of the improvement is actually in
the tape stock, if you get a chance to observe composite output of 3/4SP
and BetacamSP with the same source material, it is actually difficult to
discern which is which. It is all very subjective, but if you have the grit
to shop used and pay for the SP mod, it can be much easier on the
pocketbook, with suprisingly good end results.
Frank,
Can you give us a ballpark figure on the price of a used 3/4 SP, with and
without the mods, in your area?
Thanks,
Paul
–pt–not seattle– 😉
Paul, used 3/4SP is still quite high SONY 9850's and BVU series are still
in the stratosphere, anywhere from 5-10k. Start with a NON SP and you'll
fair much better, JVC CR850 is my first choice, it was the last broadcast
level 3/4 JVC made, (if anybody out there has one for sale, let me know).
Sony 5850's on the other hand are quite plentiful and I have seen them down
around 1-3k depending on condition. JVC top loaders like the 8200, 8250 are
usually more affordable, although the 8250 is more desireable because of
the servo and SMPTE address track. Essentially the 8250 is the top load
version of the CR850 without the shuttle knob or serial port. I wouldn't
bother with any of the Sony top loaders because shuttle times are
rediculously slow. Mods for the 3/4 Wideband vary on the type of deck
(record/playback or editor) from around $600 to $1000 per deck. Either eway
you cut it, buying a NON SP deck and having it modified is the most
affordable approach. BTW, just saw an interesting AD on the back page of TV
Technology that shows a new Pro-S deck from JVC that has a 688 dub option,
the headline reads "Life Support For Your 3/4" System". The first sentence
in the subtext says "Let's face it, your 3/4" equipment is quickly becoming
obsolete." This is an interesting advertising posture, I hope it drives the
cost of used decks down even further, but I think a lot of people who
"switched" to S are coming back to 3/4SP for rigorous edit duties. I had
another mod done which converts JVC's FM dub in-out to Y358, giving me very
good results when bumping my S aquisition material over for edits. My
inclination has had to be motivated by saving money, and getting the best
quality I can afford. People with deeper pockets than mine can jump up
there to Betacam/D2, I have to live on a tight budget.