#2.0 Won't run on 4.1 MB?
21 messages in this thread
HELP!!
I just returned from AmiExpo where I was told something rather disturbing
by several people. They inform me that since I have a B2000 rev 4.1
motherboard, ADos 2.04 won't run on my machine. Further, they tell me that
CBM's attitude to this situation is that if I want to run 2.0 bad enough I
can go by a new 2000 at the current price of $2000. Since the 2.0 OS is
on the new machines I won't have a compatibility problem.
Are they and this problem for real??!!??
wmc
I don't know whether the problem is for real, but you don't have to go buy
a new 2000. You can buy a new 2000 motherboard from a third-party for much
less than $2000.
That said, I doubt the problem is for real. Caveat: I ain't an Amiga
engineer, so I could be wrong. A motherboard revision large enough to make
your system incompatible with 2.0 seems ludicrous. 1.3 wouldn't work
either, IMHO.
Good luck.
Robert,
The B2000's apparently were originally made for Germany. During the very
first 1000 – 2000 trade-up deal in '87 or '88 some dealers got ahold of
these machines and sold them as "american" machines. The report is that
the Denise won't work correctly as the board is not "plumbed" correctly for
it.
I have had motherboard specific problems with some 3rd party hardware on 3
occasions involving 2 products. So I'm a little gun shy.
wmc
Wayne,
What!!!!
Boy do you have that wrong. The original 2000 DEMO machines were
A2000 motherboard machines. They were made in W. Germany.
The only consumer machines sold in the US were B2000 models. They
were designed in West Chester by Dave Haynie.
Yes, some or all of those A2000 demo machines got sold to customers
in the US and I've no idea if the new Denise works in them or not…but I
suspect it does The 2.04 ROM also works in those machines…the only thing
you have to do is leave the jumper in place on the ROM.
Don
Don,
Wayne's even more incorrect that you thought — the "demo" machines were
revision 3.9, not 4.1 AND they were the B2000 series not the original
German A2000 series (remember, I had one).
Steve,
Oh yea…you're right. I forgot the demos were 3.9's not A2000
motherboards.
Don
Don,
I hope you are right as I have a B2000 Haynie-Fisher rev 4.1. (It did come
in a box that was German only on the outside, though – I still have it.)
wmc
Wayne,
2.04 will work in your B2000.
Wayne,
That's correct…the first runs of B2000's were made in West
Germany. My 2000's box (which I also still have) likewise came from West
Germany. The machine however, had a sticker inside that said "West Chester
Burn In." I believe all the early 2000's came like this.
Side thought: Interesting…I'm saying "West Germany" because that
what it was a few years ago…but that country doesn't exist any more, just
plain old Germany now.
Don
And the USSR ain't 'U' anymore.
Wonder how many Soviets said, "It can't happen here…"
Wonder if George ever had that thought….
wmc
Wayne,
You've got it backwards. The A2000 (motherboard version number, not
marketing's model number) was original created for European sale. It had a
LOT of problems (ask Larry Philips about it, he had one). The B2000 is the
corrected version and the only version legally sold in the US. There were
some motherboard revisions older than your 4.1 — I had a 3.9 and 2.0
worked fine on it (it had a problem in which you could not use 1M Agnus
with it and accelerators were a bit flakey, but 2.0 worked great).
As Steve points out, the original motherboards were made in Germany, but
they were easily recognizable. They had no monochrome output, a separate,
vertical card that contained memory (512K, added at $C00000), and that
plugged into the CPU slot, as well as a single-connector video slot. You
are right in saying that the German model would not take the fat Agnus, but
if you have a monochrome video output jack, you definitely have a North
American version.
All 'legal' 2000's were model B2000 (technically, not marketing terms), and
no German versions were supposed to be sold in the US. They were only demo
machines.
Every time I talk about this I have to say it again… if they ever let the
German team design anything for the Amiga line again, you'd be best off
pretending it doesn't exist, and keep your money in your wallet.
-larry
Larry,
Why are you against the German team? This is a little bit of history
that I'm not aware of!
Sincerely,
(Mr.) Gayle Lee Fairless
'Perfessor Fearless'
– via Whap!
Gayle,
Well, there were a lot of things wrong with the design of the German
model of the 2000. I can excuse those things that were unavoidable, like
the single connector video slot, because they probably worked within the
specs current at the time. I cannot see why on earth they used a kludge
that was marginal at best, and unworkable on the average, to put the second
512K on a card that took up the CPU slot.
I am no engineer, but a friend and I attempted to do the same kludge, and
discarded the idea because of too tight a restriction on the signals
involved. I am not paid to make good design decisions, but they are, and
their decision was bad, all the way.
There were several other things wrong with it that I cannot think of
right now, but at one time I had a list that I used to mention when people
asked my opinion about a particularly good-sounding price on a 2000, and it
happened to be the German motherboard.
I figure they ought to stick to the CBM PC line, where I don't care how
good or bad the product is.
-larry
Larry, sounds like I've got the legal one. I should have my stuff
installed this weekend (at the dealer just in case!!).
wmc
Wayne,
Probably a good idea, having it done by a dealer. Motherboard revs in
earlier machines were tricky for a lot of other reasons too, and better
they should spend the time and pull their hair if there's anything strange.
-larry
Wayne,
Who is spreading this garbage? I've got a 4.1 B2000 and a 2.04 ROM
and they work perfectly together.
Don
Don,
Do you have the ECS Denise in there too? The incompatibility is supposed
to be involved with that chip somehow. I THINK (can't remember for sure)
that it was Oran Sands or someone in that class that mentioned it. I
remember the panic point but I don't remember who first mentioned it, but
that is where the dicussion took place.
wmc
Wayne,
Yes…I also have the ECS Denise in my machine. And I've also
replaced the original 512K Agnus with first a 1 Meg Agnus and now with the
2 Meg Agnus via DKB's MegaChip board.
Who ever is feeding you this information on A2000's vs B2000's and
what will/won't run in what machine is plain wrong.
Don
The ECS Denise requires two more signals than does the OLD denise. I'm
pretty sure My 4.1 worked OK, so those lines were run. It should be used
with a 1 Meg Agnus, because the 1/2Meg Agnus has programmable syncs, and
the 512K 8370 Agnus doesn't.
-Greg
– via Whap!
It ran just great on my 4.1 machine. I've upgraded Agnus and Denise and
probably Paula along the way, but 2.04 works OK for me.
-Greg
– via Whap!