##9256-Animation Marketin
34 messages in this thread
One more thing that's IMPORTANT to note.
The AmigaDOS platform makes the Toaster EXTREMELY unreliable to use in a
production environment. Files constantly get lost, munged, or just
vaporized into cosmic rays. I guarantee you that your work with 3DS can
beat anyone on the Toaster for coming in on time and under budget.
Thanks for the response, Gary. I know you're busy. I really wish I
could get out to Anaheim for NCGA, but I really need a bigger hard
disk, and I can buy one for about as much as it would cost for me to
come out there. I know there's some sort of gag rule on the issue,
but if the announcement is on March 9th, is there any information on
when my dealer might have the software for me to get ahold of? I've
already put in my order.
I noticed in message #9380, you qualified your response that 3D Studio
1.0 is "way faster than lightwave doing things like shadows." Does
rendering speed mostly pertain to shadows or across the board? I
know it sounds like I'm beating a dead horse here, but with the media
blitz that Newtek is putting on I get asked a lot of questions.
Really looking forward to release 2!
No problem with your not being able to make NCGA, Roger. I'll be
extremely open about r2's features, etc. after the 9th. Sorry, but I
can't comment on anything about it till then (but Autodesk has a
policy of not announcing anything unless then can ship it very soon
thereafter).
Regarding my comment re rendering speed…. Since Lightwave creates
shadows by ray-tracing ONLY, it can take 3 HOURS to render a frame on
the fastest Amiga 68030 out there, compared to 10 MINUTES to render
the same kind of image in 3DSr2 on a 486/33. And our image will
generally look better because of our new shadows. That's 18x faster.
The issue goes farther than just shadows, but I really don't want to
talk about it till after the 9th. Please bear with me. You're about
to get your wildest 3D animation fantasies realized.
Latest gossip says GSL won't even have a booth at NCGA and that any
VARs showing Topas will not have 4.0 — only 3.61 . Looks like you got the
drop on them as far as release dates. See you there !
I'm not surprised. Anything they could possibly show at NCGA would
absolutely pale in comparison to the 3DSr2 launch. It would just be
too embarrasing for them.
Can you tell that I'm impressed with the work we've done?
Don't forget to tell everybody to come to the 3DS Experts seminar on
Wed March 12 at 3:30-5:00. (PLUG..PLUG…). Bring all your questions
folks, but this time, I get to talk!
Absolutely! That'll be a very interesting afternoon, and anyone
interested in 3DS would be crazy not to miss it.
Gary, Are you impressed enough with it to show it at Spring Comdex? I
don't see Autodesk on the list of vendors.
Actually, we've never shown any Adesk multimedia products at the
Spring Comdex, as far as I know. My personal feelings about Comdex
are pretty negative. I hate the attitude of the people who run the
show, and although we have to display stuff in Vegas in the fall,
there's no way you could ever get me to Atlanta in the spring.
Is there a good season for Atlanta? If not spring, when is
it? Certainly not summer. I was there a few years back for
Siggraph. Definitely hot. Then I almost ran off the road blinded by
lightning. Had dinner at a restaurant where all the lights were out
except for a couple of those emergency lights (which were pointed
anywhere useful).
Gary, Well you don't have to worry about Alanta, because its in Chicago!
This is a *major* multimedia show held in concert with Windows World. Mike
Dell is keynote for Comdex and Bill (Billy hisself) Gates is keynote for
Windows World.
I would certainly think your three multimedia products need to be shown
there.
Mike
I try to go to as few trade shows as possible, but Autodesk makes their
decisions about which shows to exhibit at on their own. If you're
interested in their trade show schedule for this year, you should contact
Bob Bennett. I pretty much try to stay out of marketing-related stuff.
– G
-Gary;
Thanks for your last response.
Can you provide us Neo's with a little info about this (I assume) trade
show, NCGA? Like, when, where, and how much? I'm trying to decide between a
Toaster (I've seen their demo…), and 3DS for both my own company, and
another I work with that is going whole-hawg and setting up a training-tape
studio. I'd sure like to get a no-hype, just-the-facts-Ma'am view of both.
Thanks,
Glen Powell, Powell Video Postworks Chatsworth, CA
NCGA (National Computer Graphics Association) show is at the Anaheim
Convention Center from March 9-12 (about 2 weeks from now). Since you live
so close, I recommending dropping in and checking it out for yourself.
– G
Gary,
18x faster–That's pretty significant! Get my wildest 3D animation
fantasies realized? You're determined to keep the rest of us from sleeping
nights, too, hmmm?
Roger D.
We'll keep you challenged for a few years, at least. You are going to be
amazed.
– G
Have you got a scene that takes 3 hours to render in LightWave that takes
10 minutes to render in 3D Studio? I'd love to test my translator and
double-check that claim. Do you have any scenes that take 3 hours to
render in 3D Studio? Having studied so many different 3D programs in my
work writing translators, I've found that anyone who gets to know a given
renderer learns the tricks to get the results that satisfy them, and to
avoid the things that take too long to render. In any 3D program, you'll
always save time by faking the shadows with an object that resembles the
shadow. For many people, that's fine. For people who want to make money
doing renderings and animation, it's always good advice.
You're right about how to be efficient/idiomatic with a given renderer.
Unfortunately, if raytracing is the only way to get shadows and
reflections, there are not many options if you need shadows and
reflections. The problem with Lightwave is that it's fairly fast UNTIL you
want shadows or reflections. Then it drops TO IT'S KNEES.
You made a comment about "faking" the shadows being the best route. I
guarantee you that once you see r2's shadows, you won't feel that way
anymore. Stop by the booth at NCGA and I'll show you photorealistic
shadows that take almost no extra time or memory overhead. Scary stuff!
– G
Pretty wild accusation about AmigaDOS, Gary! Three million Amiga fanatics
can't be wrong. 🙂 Seriously, where did you get that information about
file system unreliability? My office has a fully loaded PC with 3D Studio,
AutoCAD, AAPro, a Mac IIci with a half-dozen 3D programs, and a Toastered
Amiga with even more 3D stuff. Which system is mostly likely to scrag a
file? The Mac, I'd say. I've never had those problems on the PC or Amiga.
Lest you think I'm showing a platform bias, I have no doubts about 3D
Studio's superiority to LightWave, as a system. I'd take spline-derived
modeling any day, and I look forward to v2.0. But get you get what you pay
for, right? As Roger mentions in his reply, not everyone has cash to burn.
C'mon, John. Are you telling me that AmigaDOS is and has always been a
robust operating system? I've got first-hand experience with nightmares
I've never experienced on a PC. I supposed that once burned, twice
freaked out.
You're absolutely right that you get what you pay for, and I think that the
Toaster is the absolute video deal of the CENTURY. Especially since
Lightwave is virtually FREE. I just don't think that it can deliver the
world of 3D animation to people who need to depend upon it to crank out the
work.
– G
I can't tell you what happened, you weren't very specific. Yes, AmigaDOS
is robust – it's been been doing real, honest preemptive multitasking for
more than six years. The good news is, Windows NT feels about as smooth as
the Amiga, so there's hope for the PC. System 7 crashes more than my Amiga.
Is it as scary as configuring a new hard disk on a PC, or configuring your
favorite memory manager, or trying to determine which DMA interrupt is
conflicting on which board? (I know that when my AutoCAD dealer dropped by
to install it on my system, I had to show him how to run QEMM.) Or
deciding which things need to be juggled in and out of the Mac's System
folders in order to turn things on and off? Everything seems scary until
you're familiar with a machine. As for disappearing Amiga files, I don't
know how you can explain that in terms of the Toaster – it doesn't even
include a GUI way of deleting a file as far as I know. So I can't even
blame your symptoms on an honest mistake. 🙂
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I can't tell you what happened, you weren't very specific. Yes, AmigaDOS
is robust – it's been been doing real, honest preemptive multitasking for
more than six years. The good news is, Windows NT feels about as smooth as
the Amiga, so there's hope for the PC. System 7 crashes more than my Amiga.
Is it as scary as configuring a new hard disk on a PC, or configuring your
favorite memory manager, or trying to determine which DMA interrupt is
conflicting on which board? (I know that when my AutoCAD dealer dropped by
to install it on my system, I had to show him how to run QEMM.) Or
deciding which things need to be juggled in and out of the Mac's System
folders in order to turn things on and off? Everything seems scary until
you're familiar with a machine. If we all ran away from a computer the
first time it got hairy, none of us would be using them. As for
disappearing Amiga files, I don't know how you can explain that in terms of
the Toaster – it doesn't even include a GUI way of deleting a file as far
as I know. So I can't even blame your symptoms on an honest mistake. 🙂
i really can not believe there are amiga users out there that can seriously
think that they can even compare there systems with any thing like
3dstudio. its amazing to me! i have seen amiga systems run and was totaly
turned off. there for kids with big ambitions
there is no possible way i would ever even think to buy an amiga except for
there games<g> …. they got good games<g> yes definatly good games.
sherwood
I don't play any games on any of my computers! If you're up for it, visit
the Amiga forums and defend your opinions – I'm sure there's a lot of
Amigoids who'd love to debate you. Good games and good 3D programs have
one thing in common: they eat whatever horsepower and graphics abilities a
machine has.
C'mon, John. You _never_ play games on your Amiga???
– Jack
Nope! And if anyone ever gives me one, I give it away. I rarely "get
into" computer games – I think the last one I liked was the coin-op
BattleZone, or C-64 Defender. I just don't see the motivation in blowing
up those aliens, or zapping those polygons. 🙂
i tell ya… my kids have hours of fun on the amiga. keeps them busy and
learning at the same time. oops i just admitted i own one no… its the
kids computer REALLY , i swear<G>… i never play there games… (i still
have the high score …)
sherwood
J.,
You obviously haven't seen Dragons Lair. I can't imagine anyone in the
animation business that hasn't given this one a try. I've even heard the
best version run on the Amiga.
James
Battlezone ! That brings back memories of vector graphics arcade games.
I'll bet you liked my favorite from the early '80's — TEMPEST !
Bruce
Tempest – Apple II, right? Only Apple program I bought with my own money.
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
Kevin,
Hmmmmmmm, I'm not familiar with the Apple version. I was reffering
to the vector graphics based arcade game. Same as the one featured in the
opening titles of a stinker of a movie called "Night of the Comet".
Bruce
Sherwood:
Our personal biases aside, I have seen excellent work done in the Amiga
environment by a local company called Lone Star Pictures (or Productions?)
They bundle their service with Amiga-based beta-sp editing, toaster, with
everything software-linked. Their product is extremely cost effective (if
a bit on the pixelly-side <g>) and proved to me that there is a viable
market for such products. They do NOT oversell it, and are quite realistic
concerning their configuration's limitations. They are in a class by
themselves, but are outclassed by 3D Studio! The value in their system, I
think, is in the total video production integration. There's LOTS of room
out there to run, Sherwood.
Ken Loss-Cutler