micron p60
52 messages in this thread
John,
Since you're talking about video cards Iwanted to know if anyone can
recommend one good VL card for 3ds3 and HiResQFX? I'm looking at Pegasus VL
Viper VL(w/o Oak chip) and Hercules Graphite 2mb. Matrox is unfamiliar to me
but after looking at the large number of versions available and prices I
thought
it was worth the look.
Onthe subject of p60, I'd already done some looking into the DEC alpha and
so when it became apparent that pentium was the only option I had for
optimizing
3ds3 I naturally saw that DEC had a version that was multi-processor
upgradeablebut that offered what they called a kernal system that has 3 isa
slot
3 pci slots and p66 onboard. the price is a stout 3k but by mid summer when
my opportunity will become real I hope the $ will drop.
I guess that leads me to the video card which will be the wrong standard
for the new pci mother bd. Which video card will give me the best for 3ds3
etc? Hey, Ara!
Any info supplied will be placed
upon my bathroom
and studied daily! Thanks, Gary
I use both the Hercules Graphite, and the Matrox MGA Impression (top
of the line MGA). The Matrox cards will be supported by the next
Vibrant update, so I would bet on that card as the best. I'm
unfamiliar with the details of HiResQFX. Is it a windows app? If so
you won't find a faster card than the MGA series, which are all 64
bit accelerators. If it's a dos app, the MGA II series are less
expensive than the MGA Ultima and Impression, but have a faster VGA
chipset. They do not, however, support hardware assisted 3D rendering
and real-time viewing in AutoCad. I bought the Herc because my MGA
was not supported directly in 3DSr3 (the vesa mode was, but the MGA
Impression's VGA chipset is too slow to be usefull), and I do like
it. It is not as fast as the MGA, though.
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
>I use both the Hercules Graphite, and the Matrox MGA Impression (top of the
>line MGA).
Now that's strange – I'm sitting here, with two 486 computers – one
with a Graphite, and one with a MGA Impression.
I wonder what it all means… (eerie music wafting in b.g.) <g>.
You must be a very sensible person <g>. Either that or you got the
Impression, then 3DS R3 came out and you had to get the Herc so you
could cut down on your smoking habit (my running joke about the MGA
was you could smoke a cigarette between VGA screen redraws) <g>.
John
>> my running joke about the MGA was you could smoke a cigarette between VGA
screen redraws. <<
Was this from personal experience, or from the embarrassment of a client
sitting there puffing away in anticipation…. <G>
-JE
Personal experience. I'm probably the only person left in this granola fascist
state <g,d, &r> that still smokes. I sometimes feel like I'm murdering puppies
when I light a cigarette <g>.
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
John, believe it or not you're in good company, or BAD depending on how you
look at it. <G> Its not a party down here in the land of surfboards but in S.F.
with the intellectual elite its murder! Makes you want to move back to Europe,
where they take the long view on things. C'est la vie.
I'll have a light… a Marlboro Light, thankyou very much.
-JE
john,
fascist state <g,d, &r>
^^^^^^^ ^ ^ ^
Why the <g,d,&r>?
🙂
ana /krazy images
Specifically I was making a joke about Granola Fascists, or those
inclined to force their ideology (and Birkenstocks <g>) on all those
poor unfortunates who don't share their spirit-crystalo-happydolphin
ideology and taste for purple and gold lamee sweatpants and group
hugs on extasy, and feel the strong need to legislate other people's
opinions out of existence. I often agree with their basic
philosophies of conservation, respect for life, etc…., but it just
pisses me off to no end when anybody tells me what to do, or gets a
legislator to do it for them (even worse). So much for today's rant
from jt =-)
>> …. no end when anybody tells me what to do, … <<
Another born anrchist, I'm sure Ana can relate. <G>
>>>.., but it just pisses me off to no end when anybody tells me what
to do, or gets a legislator to do it for them (even worse).<<<
"I am sick and tired of being told that ordinary decent people are fed
up in this country with being sick and tired. Now I'm certainly not
but I'm sick and tired of being told that I am."
Couldn't resist <g>. I'm counting on you to recognize the above
quote.
Bob
I'm struggling… but I can't figure it out. My memory is bashed from all
those years of group hugs and the Grateful Dead (how do think I know so much
about Granola Fascists?) <GGG>
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
I think it was a campaign speech given by a member of the silly party
but anyways it was in an old Python episode. I remember the next
candidate stating, "I believe that all right-thinking people are
wrong."
John,
>> (and Birkenstocks <g>) <<
Hey! I resemble that remark! My Birkenstock are some of my favourite
footwear and hold pride of place besides my black, 10-hole, Doc
Martens <g>
You're 10-hole, black Doc's are the equilibrium, you see. If it was
just the Birkensocks, then you'd find yourself with irresistable
urges to wear Patchouli, smoke Sher Bidi's, and drive VW campers with
flouride crystals dangling from the rear-view mirror <g>. And that
buzz cut of yours would resist the barber's clippers and then the
universe would spin out of balance on a… geez, I just can't stop
myself <g>.
John,
>> Patchouli, smoke Sher Bidi's <<
I must be OK, since I don't even know what those are. Maybe English hippies
have different names for their uniforms and paraphenalia <g>.
clap, clap, clap 🙂
(A)n(A) /kr(A)zy im(A)ges
John/Gary:
>> I'm unfamiliar with the details of HiResQFX.
Shame on you!! <bg> It's only one of the best high resolution 32
bit paint/effects programs around! Proxy mode, supports
pressure-sensitive tablets, plug-ins, etc. Video capture, all the
goodies, and SPEED, SPEED, SPEED! I've never seen a faster hi-res
program. BTW, works great on standard sized images, also! <g>
No, it is NOT Windoze based! Protected mode app. Runs directly on
the graphics cards. I have a version for the AT-Vista, you should
see it smoke at 1024x768x32 bits! (But then your Matrox won't do
that, will it? <g>) They have special versions for those cards,
also!
The MGA is limited to 1280x1024x24bits (probably a million times faster than
the Vista, too), but the Vista won't do real-time 3D, now, will it <g>?
John (don't diss my MGA) Tissavary (La Luna cie)
John,
Does the MGA accept 14 megs of memory like my Vista does? Is it a framebuffer?
And now that you mention it I have a couple of TIGA based 3D programs
that do perform remarkable interactive 3D in real-time. Of course
they're running directly from the Vista's memory and utilizing the
Tiga processor, but they are blindingly fast. And with all of that on
board memory directly connected to the processor it's pretty
difficult to beat. I have a really great flight simulator program
that runs onboard the Vista and I've never seen anything that
compares to it outside of full blown simulators.
Paul
I'd love to check out the simulator!!! Sounds great.
The MGA comes with a maximum of 8megs, but it's not a videographics board, or
framebuffer, its an SVGA card for all practical purposes.
I was responding to a request for information on what graphics cards
would be good for a PCI Pentium and HiResQFX and 3DS. I wasn't sure
if Hires QFX was windows or not, and Greg jumped in with a bizarre
comparison of the Vista running QFX to the MGA running windows
graphics apps after I suggested the MGA series as the best card hands
down for windows apps. I think it's really a question of apples and
oranges, since the Vista is a framebuffer and not a dedicated
graphics adaptor.
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
John,
I thought the MGA was a windows card. That's why I responded. You and I agree
totally. Definately Apples to Oranges.
Paul
Oh, another graphic adapter war!
Paul,
Where did you get that 3d programs? I'm specially interested in the FS to run
it on the TV-1204/32. Hey, this beauty have a faster processor than the Vista,
but anythingm, except Windows, could get anything from the TIGA.
Thanks!
ana /krazy images
John:
>> but the Vista won't do real-time 3D, now, will it?
Sure it will! Check Paul's message! Also, it will hold much more memory. And
it will also do 1500 x 756 x 32, if you want. <g> (Still going strong after
all these years!) [Was that me or the Vista?]
But whatever, you still _need_ to try out HiRes QFX, which is what started all
this stuff! <g>
Take care, Greg Pyros
Ok, maybe real-time 3D off memory, but it's still apples and oranges.
How does the Vista do in Windoze, BTW?
I'll check out QFX one of these days, but Windoze is proving to be a
powerful interface for still images where maximum speed is not the
ultimate advantage.
John:
>> Windoze is proving to be a powerful interface for still images where >>
maximum speed is not the ultimate advantage.
I agree with you again! (That's twice this year, and it's only January!)
But (you knew that was coming!) as a professional in this business, where time
is money, both to me and to my clients, speed is always an advantage, if I can
accomplish the same things!!
And the Vista in Windoze really gives Windoze it's nickname!
Greg Pyros
I knew it was coming. I've been meaning to check it out, and I hear there is a
demo version. I can't afford more image software (just got Pstyler 2.0 —
AAAWWWEEESSSOOOMMMEEE!!! – sent my first 2.0 FIERY job out, and it came back
perfect), but I LOVE playing with demos, so maybe it'll show up on my list =)
>>Vista in Windoze really gives Windoze it's nickname!<<
LOL!
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
Greg,
Hey, I caught the "ordered three Pentiums to evaluate" out of an earlier part
of this thread, how's it going with them? (are these the pentiums that I'm
thinking about?)
Chuck
Chuck:
Going well, except of course for video card/driver madness!
Greg Pyros
Greg,
I have our Number9's here working as VESA's for now, as the GXE is a hardware
compatible VESA board and for 3DS will not require a driver.
Chuck
PS Brian, hear our desperate cries for help!<BG>
John,
There is a QFX demo version available. It's one of the few
paint/touchup programs around that do have a functional demo, so you can try
before you buy. I don't have it myself, as I'm happy with Pshop, Pstyler and
Painter, and can't see spending $800 (or whatever) on yet another paint
package. Although I must admit its ability to batch process frames is a little
tempting!
David
Dave,
Any info on how to scrape up a QFX demo?
Thanx,
Chuck
>>Any info on how to scrape up a QFX demo?
Here's the address amd phone # off of the disk I got at Siggraph last
year….
Ron Scott, Inc.
1000 Jackson Boulevard
Houston, TX 77006
(713) 529-5868 (Voice) (713) 529-9370 (FAX)
David
David,
I think that there's is an utility in the Aldus forum that let you apply macros
within Styler or any other application. It's called Superbar. I haven't
downloaded it yet, but it seems that people like it. However, I am waiting to
hear if I can specify a list of files to process anywhere in the recorded
macro. BTW, X3 will support batch processing (in fact, you will be able to put
in a batch everything, including entire recorded sessions).
ana /krazy images
Ana,
I saw those messages about "Superbar" too. It sounds pretty
interesting. I'll probably try to grab it soon, but if you get it first, let me
know what you think. I'm really excited about the posibilities of X3, I hope
its coming along well (and quickly). Thanks.
David
Thay have announce spring as the release date (well, I suppose they want to
have a wide time-frame 🙂
ana /krazy images
David,
QFX used to be a collection of separate image processing utilities that could
be batched. The current version is a single, non-batchable paint program. I
have kept my older versions around to keep this capability… Perhaps you
could get a deal from Ron Scott on Hi-Res QFX 2.0?
Donald
Donald,
I heard somewhere a while back (probably on this forum) that Ron was
putting the batch abilities back in. That to me would be one of the strongest
reasons to get it. Unless a project demands getting it, it will stay at the
back of the shopping list for me.
David
I'm pretty lost in the "micron p60" threads (there are so
many!).. all I want to know is did you guys finally conclude that the
micron p60 was an ideal machine for 3DS or was there some sort of
problem with it?
Steven:
Yes, the Micron P60 is an ideal machine for 3DS. Micron is an Autodesk
registered hardware developer, and uses 3DS in-house.
Good.. I was hoping you'd say that. There seems to be a very good deal
on their Platinum PC. 64MB RAM, 2GB harddrive, 2X CD-ROM, 17" monitor, Pentium
60 MHz, 2MB Viper Video for $6,700 or something? That's pretty good!
— Steve
Stephen:
The Platinum is a good deal. It uses a DEC fast SCSI hard drive, and the
monitor is a Micron labeled MAG unit. All in all nice – although I'd upgrade
the Viper to a Matrox MGA II.
Evan
Steven:
I don't have a Micron, but we did get in three other Pentiums to evaluate. I'll
let you know what we think.
Greg Pyros
looking forward to here that report Greg. Which 3 pentiums are you testing by
the way if not Micron?
— Steve
Greg,
I was a Hi-Res QFX die hard Windose Scoffer, but a strange thing happened to me
about three months ago…I started trying to do the same things I was doing in
QFX in Photoshop (where I have to scan and print anyhow), and I woke up about
six hours later a CONVERT!!! I am a closet Photoshophead. It is hard not to
be when Photoshop matches every QFX feature with a feature that does five times
as much with far more control and precision… And, dare I say it, it really
is faster than QFX at lots of things.
For now, I enjoy having both programs, but I ultimately just want a fast
windowed environment that runs everything. It would be wonderful to have QFX
integrated with 3D Studio…but is still a pain to have to load Windows every
time we need scan or a print…
-Donald
>> is still a pain to have to load Windows every time we need scan or a >>
print…
I agree! Give me back my Sun OpenWindows operating system any time!
One of the best solutions we have found for now is to run Vista TIPS
from the pulldowns of 3D Studio, works great for adjusting maps and
things. And since it doesn't clear the screen upon entry, I can
render an image, pop into TIPS, touch it up, and save it without any
hassle! How fast is PhotoShop on a 3k x 3k image? I'm curious…
I have been meaning to benchmark Photoshop VS QFX in terms of
basics–file loading, scrolling etc. I am pretty sure that we would
find that opening and closing files are pretty close. Brush response
is clearly faster in QFX, but Photoshop does such a nice job of
filling in that most of the time it is not a problem. In most
places, I would agree that the basic "engine" of QFX is faster, but I
am finding myself being MORE PRODUCTIVE in Photoshop. In QFX,
outside of basic painting (where I enjoy using it a lot), there is a
tremendous amount of guesswork, and kludging involved in really basic
things like cutting and pasting, image adjustment, line drawing etc.
that are just a snap in Photoshop. Many is the time that I have
tried an edit 10, 30, 50 times in QFX only to find that in Photoshop
it is a one-minute deal.
Your TIPS setup sounds ideal for video. I do mostly high resolution
stills now. I have extremely fond memories of years working with
TIPS on screen resolution pieces. Targa TIPS is possibly the most
elegant piece of software that I have ever used. Fast, elegant, —
the most unobtrusive interface concievable, calibrated to the
movement of a hand on a digitizer (all the functions in a floating
area about the size of a keypad!!!)… Ahh…
In that frame-buffer/DOS world we had some truly great setups. The work was on
one screen and we could pull up any of a suite of applications to work on
it…I have high hopes that someday OLE will give us back that environment.
Donald
John,
How useful is the Matrox real time 3D for you? I am wondering if it jumps up
fast enough to make you really want to use it? Does it bog down or crash with
big models? Is it good enough to make you port files back into Acad to go for
a spin? Does it include a command line DXF 3D Viewer?
Thanks,
Donald Newlands
(Always interested but afraid to ask for fear of fueling compulsive hardware
obession…)
The MGA that I have does bog on larger models. I use it as a tool for
my imagination. I'll pull in models in progress, or parts thereof,
render them and spin them around a couple times to see them in
motion. The DXF and render process gets a little slow, but that's
what you get when you use Acad as a $4000 3D view utility <g>. The
3D Dynaview was really designed for rendering Acad generated stuff,
and is a bit faster and more utilitarian there, but I do use the 3D
view in most of my 3DS modeling at least once or twice. Usually when
I get sick of wireframes <g>.
If you're looking for a superfast realtime 3D preview tool I would
suggest an SGI Reality Engine equipped machine, 'cause PC's just
can't hack it yet. I hear there are some hardware manufacturers
coming out with Open GL engines, though, that will render and view 3D
more like SGI's using the Open GL libraries.
Hmm, I am feeling my techno-fetishistic tendencies subside on this
subject — thats good! Thanks John! I can go on now. I can wait a
few years for the Nintendo Reality Engine…
Gary,
I looked at this problem for awhile, and settled on 2Mb ATI Ultra Pro VLB for
a flock of 3DS/HRQ systems. The ATI was the only card that I could find at the
time that would support VESA 1.2 modes above 640x480x16… Now, I saw a
Diamond Viper Vesa 1.2 driver on CIS, and wonder if I bought the right boards.
The ATI is fast enough, the drivers are good, but in my experiences as an
application junkie, I have found a lot of (Windows) programs have special
problems with ATI. I am starting to work more and more in Photoshop now, and
am begining to wonder whether buying hardware to work with QFX makes sense
anymore–especially when a future QFX will be Windows, should I want to
continue with Ron Scott…
I am looking for something that does VESA 1.2 and can be setup in dual
monitor configurations (key to my future Windows strategy–imagine putting all
of those &*$! floating Windows tool pallettes on one screen and having another
dedicated to the Image!!! ); can be upgraded to 4Mb VRAM, has a VLB connector,
and is based on a popular chipset…. I may be thinking about a Metheus
Premier VLB and no more DOS QFX (S3 boards don't support VESA 1.2)… Hmm…Any
thoughts?
Donald