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· Videophile
##67236-Videoscapre 3-D
45 messages in this thread
It's very simple. We send the contents of a file over the serial port (if
the file is there … it has a special name) for each frame. So we are
assuming a RS232 based controller that has a command (or commands) that
will accomplish a "shoot the frame" command. I don't know if you can get
that for the Bolex. We also have a manual single frame mode… By the way,
you can setup your animation to work with any time base (16, 24, or 30
frames per second) as all timing in Videoscape is frame based.
Thanks – what you describe sounds adaptable to my use, although I'm afraid
no one makes RS232 based controllers for Bolex H16's. I'll obviously have
to roll my own. Two more questions:
(1) Can I write my own file with whatever I want in it and give it your
"special name"?
(2) Does the RS232 controller have to send a message back to Videoscape
when it's captured the frame?
Just a thought, but I could hook another computer up to the Amiga's serial
port and program it to wait for your command, trigger a solenoid through
its parallel port to operate the camera and then send a message back to the
Amiga. Is that roughly what your program is expecting?
Thanks, Vince
You can put whatever you want in the serial file. We do not expect any
reply. Your idea of using another computer (C64?) as a solonoid controller
is a good one. Good luck.
Pardon me for butting in on this thread, but is it too late for the
Videoscape programmers to consider looking for a public message port with a
name like "VTRControl"? Then sending a simple message to it to cause the
record and waiting for the reply to verify the record is finished. This
would allow the user to write a custom vtr controller using either the
Amiga's serial or parallel port with no need for another computer in the
middle. Perhaps even a standard message format could be worked out to
command the most common vtr functions, so that anybody's animation programs
could use the same controller. Just a thought…. Regards, Mike Schulte
And a fine thought indeed Mike! That makes a lot of sense. If there is no
message port, Videoscape could do whatever it would do normally. I think we
definitely need more thinking like this, especially on the part of
commercial programmers.
Regards, Larry.
And a fine thought indeed Mike! That makes a lot of sense. If there is no
message port, Videoscape could do whatever it would do normally. I think we
definitely need more thinking like this, especially on the part of
commercial programmers.
Regards, Larry.
For now we are sending a file over the serial port for each frame. All the
VCR controllers we have seen that support single frame (VAS 5, from Lyon
Labs etc…) work in this manner. Also due to ANIM single framing is no
longer a requirement. But it's a good suggestion ….
Though some of pro units (most of them?) may accept a file over the serial
port, I think that you may be surprised at the number of people who would
want to do something at home, with equipment of their own design, etc. The
advantage of doing search for a named message port should not be
underestimated, for the reason already stated, and for future compatibility
with any method that might be used on amateur or professional equipment.
You say that single framing is no longer a requirement, but I'm afraid you
are off base in that statement. You have mentioned sequences of 4-5
seconds, and have spoken of hard disk storage for longer sequences. This is
all fine and good for those who have access to an editing suite, but falls
short of the mark for those with less sophisticated equipment, including,
as one member mentioned, movie cameras.
My advice is to spend the small extra effort to look for a message port,
and if available, send whatever status commands are needed. In addition, I
would urge you to fully document the procedures and messages. It will serve
to make your program more useful to a wider range of people.
Another thing to keep in mind is that anything sent out the serial port
should be completely under control of the user. It is annoying to say the
least to see data pouring out to my modem as I use a program, and I imagine
it is even more annoying to those who have a printer attached.
Regards, Larry.
You can do 4 to 5 seconds of Video Res (352 x 440) graphics on a 512K
machine. A Hard Disk helps but memory is more important. If you can supply
sample code for talking to a message port (I am VERY tied up in
projects….) we may be able to get it into VideoScape. No promises as the
manual and boxes are already in production …. but I will let everyone
know about the suggestion (a good one).
The easiest way would be for me to point you at Rob Peck's book,
"Programmer's Guide to tthe Amiga". Starting on page 58, you will see
Signals, followed by Messages starting on page 64, complete with code
fragments. As well, there are examples in the chapter on multitasking. The
code required is fairly minimal, and of course if you did a FindPort() and
found nothing, then you wouldn't need to send anything to it. If you find
one, then a message need only be sent when an event occurs that is of
interest. I hope you can put it in, and if not, then perhaps in the next
release.
I love the Peck Book, but I'm kinda of dissapointed that the examples will
not run (Unmodified) in AZTEC 16bit mode. It would have been easy to make
them run with 16bit int, and it wouldn't have made it incomptable with
Lattice. I will check out that section …. thanks.
I love the Peck Book, but I'm kinda of dissapointed that the examples will
not run (Unmodified) in AZTEC 16bit mode. It would have been easy to make
them run with 16bit int, and it wouldn't have made it incomptable with
Lattice. I will check out that section …. thanks.
The easiest way would be for me to point you at Rob Peck's book,
"Programmer's Guide to tthe Amiga". Starting on page 58, you will see
Signals, followed by Messages starting on page 64, complete with code
fragments. As well, there are examples in the chapter on multitasking. The
code required is fairly minimal, and of course if you did a FindPort() and
found nothing, then you wouldn't need to send anything to it. If you find
one, then a message need only be sent when an event occurs that is of
interest. I hope you can put it in, and if not, then perhaps in the next
release.
This ain't the best solution, but if the manuals are already being printed,
an addition in the form of a Read-Me file would suffice. Those who need
the feature would be overjoyed and those who don't won't care much (they
won't have to read all the stuff about public port
"AegisVideoScape3DMagicPort1" which keeps the serial port from getting
something for each frame. I can assure you that the word will get out if
the feature exists independent of whether the box mentions it at all.
I am going to have some dicussion about it this week. It's till a question
of time… but the feature could allways make it into a revision.
I am going to have some dicussion about it this week. It's till a question
of time… but the feature could allways make it into a revision.
This ain't the best solution, but if the manuals are already being printed,
an addition in the form of a Read-Me file would suffice. Those who need
the feature would be overjoyed and those who don't won't care much (they
won't have to read all the stuff about public port
"AegisVideoScape3DMagicPort1" which keeps the serial port from getting
something for each frame. I can assure you that the word will get out if
the feature exists independent of whether the box mentions it at all.
You can do 4 to 5 seconds of Video Res (352 x 440) graphics on a 512K
machine. A Hard Disk helps but memory is more important. If you can supply
sample code for talking to a message port (I am VERY tied up in
projects….) we may be able to get it into VideoScape. No promises as the
manual and boxes are already in production …. but I will let everyone
know about the suggestion (a good one).
Though some of pro units (most of them?) may accept a file over the serial
port, I think that you may be surprised at the number of people who would
want to do something at home, with equipment of their own design, etc. The
advantage of doing search for a named message port should not be
underestimated, for the reason already stated, and for future compatibility
with any method that might be used on amateur or professional equipment.
You say that single framing is no longer a requirement, but I'm afraid you
are off base in that statement. You have mentioned sequences of 4-5
seconds, and have spoken of hard disk storage for longer sequences. This is
all fine and good for those who have access to an editing suite, but falls
short of the mark for those with less sophisticated equipment, including,
as one member mentioned, movie cameras.
My advice is to spend the small extra effort to look for a message port,
and if available, send whatever status commands are needed. In addition, I
would urge you to fully document the procedures and messages. It will serve
to make your program more useful to a wider range of people.
Another thing to keep in mind is that anything sent out the serial port
should be completely under control of the user. It is annoying to say the
least to see data pouring out to my modem as I use a program, and I imagine
it is even more annoying to those who have a printer attached.
Regards, Larry.
I'd like to add my vote to Larry's…..see message : #: 68743
S6/Videophile 21-May-87 18:18:15
I'll pass it along …. but time is VERY short.
I understand, I must have been asleep at the wheel, I generally have
opinions about everything (as soon as I hear about them), and comment on
them. Well, we all have 20/10 hindsight, keep up the good work.
I understand, I must have been asleep at the wheel, I generally have
opinions about everything (as soon as I hear about them), and comment on
them. Well, we all have 20/10 hindsight, keep up the good work.
I'll pass it along …. but time is VERY short.
I'd like to add my vote to Larry's…..see message : #: 68743
S6/Videophile 21-May-87 18:18:15
One of the reasons I made the suggestion about the public port was that I
checked out our 1" machines at work the other night (Ampex VPR-2's &
VPR-80's) and none of them have the serial edit control interfaces. Only
the standard "dumb" interface port is there. I imagine that this is true of
the machines bought by many television stations. Little thought was given
to the thought of computer control and in-house animation when we went from
2" to 1" machines several years ago. When you walk into management and tell
them what wonders could be done with an under $200 program they're all ears
until you mention that another computer must be aquired or another little
black box must be wired in get it to work. Even in our top 10 market they
won't spend the extra dollars required. Your serial port file is a good
idea and I would still keep it in for users who have an intelligent
controller to talk to, but it would be nice to have the user programmed
option available, after all, isn't that what sets a multitasking machine
apart from the crowd?
The problem is one of timing … I do not know if there is enough time to
add the feature. Do you think that second party developers will be able to
create software/hardware combos that can drive the video editing
controllers directly??? Let me know.
I can't speak for 2nd party developers other than end users. In most large
to medium market TV stations at least one person, usually more loves to
tackle interface projects like this, as long as they have access to
interface signals at both ends (machine to machine, or in this case program
hooks to machine.). Most vtr's basic remote connections consist of a
connection paralleling the front panel buttons (logically if not
physically) and connections paralleling the front panel lamps. All the
hardware that is usually needed to interface to external controllers (such
as a parallel port) is a handfull of opto-couplers. A quick example of a
vtr controller that one of my fellow workers did about seven years ago; He
designed, wire wrapped and programmed a Z80 based controller that hooked
into 4 Sony BVU-200's, provided the operator variable speed search cueing
facilities, once the tape was at the head of the desired segment, one
button was pushed, it backed the machine up 5 seconds and passed starting
control to the operator in the control room. This device was in service for
the 5 years we used BVU-200's to air news stories from. So I do think the
people are out there that could put the message port to use. I also
understand the timing constraints that Aegis is under trying to get
Videoscape out. I'll bet that once it is released you'll hear even more
suggestions for enhancements, so perhaps this could wait for Videoscape
2.0? At least that would give more time for the idea to be fully thought
out and a standard (generic) vtr interface developed. As an owner of a
competetor's animation program it would be nice if they could use the same
user controller interface if they ever release a version 3.0 of theirs. The
IFF statdard has done wonders for graphics and sound interchangeability in
my estimation, it would be nice to have a standard for controlling some
real world events. regards, Mike Schulte
It's a good idea that (if I get the same kind of responce form the
customers that I got here) … could wind up in the VideoScape system (if
not the first release …. than maybe a revision). I tried this approach
with the Draw package back during development in 1985 (I was one of the
designers). At that time mucking with message ports was very difficult.
The situation seems to have improved since then. Thanks.
I just had a thought about another application of this same message port
idea that could find use in VideoScape or any other software using ANIMs.
If an external editing controller were able to send a "go" command to the
Amiga, one generation of tape could be avoided. In effect using the Amiga
as a source VTR. The time delay for passing the message in the Amiga in
this case would have to be less than one frame, but I shouldn't think this
would be much of a contraint. regards, Mike
I just had a thought about another application of this same message port
idea that could find use in VideoScape or any other software using ANIMs.
If an external editing controller were able to send a "go" command to the
Amiga, one generation of tape could be avoided. In effect using the Amiga
as a source VTR. The time delay for passing the message in the Amiga in
this case would have to be less than one frame, but I shouldn't think this
would be much of a contraint. regards, Mike
It's a good idea that (if I get the same kind of responce form the
customers that I got here) … could wind up in the VideoScape system (if
not the first release …. than maybe a revision). I tried this approach
with the Draw package back during development in 1985 (I was one of the
designers). At that time mucking with message ports was very difficult.
The situation seems to have improved since then. Thanks.
I can't speak for 2nd party developers other than end users. In most large
to medium market TV stations at least one person, usually more loves to
tackle interface projects like this, as long as they have access to
interface signals at both ends (machine to machine, or in this case program
hooks to machine.). Most vtr's basic remote connections consist of a
connection paralleling the front panel buttons (logically if not
physically) and connections paralleling the front panel lamps. All the
hardware that is usually needed to interface to external controllers (such
as a parallel port) is a handfull of opto-couplers. A quick example of a
vtr controller that one of my fellow workers did about seven years ago; He
designed, wire wrapped and programmed a Z80 based controller that hooked
into 4 Sony BVU-200's, provided the operator variable speed search cueing
facilities, once the tape was at the head of the desired segment, one
button was pushed, it backed the machine up 5 seconds and passed starting
control to the operator in the control room. This device was in service for
the 5 years we used BVU-200's to air news stories from. So I do think the
people are out there that could put the message port to use. I also
understand the timing constraints that Aegis is under trying to get
Videoscape out. I'll bet that once it is released you'll hear even more
suggestions for enhancements, so perhaps this could wait for Videoscape
2.0? At least that would give more time for the idea to be fully thought
out and a standard (generic) vtr interface developed. As an owner of a
competetor's animation program it would be nice if they could use the same
user controller interface if they ever release a version 3.0 of theirs. The
IFF statdard has done wonders for graphics and sound interchangeability in
my estimation, it would be nice to have a standard for controlling some
real world events. regards, Mike Schulte
The problem is one of timing … I do not know if there is enough time to
add the feature. Do you think that second party developers will be able to
create software/hardware combos that can drive the video editing
controllers directly??? Let me know.
One of the reasons I made the suggestion about the public port was that I
checked out our 1" machines at work the other night (Ampex VPR-2's &
VPR-80's) and none of them have the serial edit control interfaces. Only
the standard "dumb" interface port is there. I imagine that this is true of
the machines bought by many television stations. Little thought was given
to the thought of computer control and in-house animation when we went from
2" to 1" machines several years ago. When you walk into management and tell
them what wonders could be done with an under $200 program they're all ears
until you mention that another computer must be aquired or another little
black box must be wired in get it to work. Even in our top 10 market they
won't spend the extra dollars required. Your serial port file is a good
idea and I would still keep it in for users who have an intelligent
controller to talk to, but it would be nice to have the user programmed
option available, after all, isn't that what sets a multitasking machine
apart from the crowd?
For now we are sending a file over the serial port for each frame. All the
VCR controllers we have seen that support single frame (VAS 5, from Lyon
Labs etc…) work in this manner. Also due to ANIM single framing is no
longer a requirement. But it's a good suggestion ….
Pardon me for butting in on this thread, but is it too late for the
Videoscape programmers to consider looking for a public message port with a
name like "VTRControl"? Then sending a simple message to it to cause the
record and waiting for the reply to verify the record is finished. This
would allow the user to write a custom vtr controller using either the
Amiga's serial or parallel port with no need for another computer in the
middle. Perhaps even a standard message format could be worked out to
command the most common vtr functions, so that anybody's animation programs
could use the same controller. Just a thought…. Regards, Mike Schulte
After a long wait, several questions and explanations, I finally got a copy
of Infinite Loop today. WOW!!!!! This is what the personal computer world
has been waiting for (In video applications at least) My compliments to
both Aegis and Alan for an incredible demo. Will the program come with any
sample animations for tutorials?
Yes, there will be sample animations and a ton of predefined objects (from
Infinite Loop and elsewhere). I'm really excited with what the video
industry will be able to create with VideoScape 3D.
I'm now looking at Byte-by-Byte's Sculpt 3D program from Eric Graham,
previewing it for the upcoming Amazing Computing Video issue. (Wish I
could have had VideoScape!) Using a program like this, I can see the
immense importance of a standard format for objects. Talking with Alan
Hastings, I learned that VideoScape uses ASCII files for interchange of
created objects, similar to Aegis Animator. Poking around in Sculpt 3D, I
see it uses something that looks like IFF, but with new hunks. Grr! I
think an interchange program will be of the greatest import to the future
legions of three-dimensional program users. I don't want to nag, Bill, so
instead I'll pick up the ball myself. If I pester Eric Graham to release
and document his object format, will Hastings release his format, so
SOMEONE can consider an interchange program? (Ah, I saw the message you
posted this this effect later in the message base… Still, could you post
an early version of the spec?)
I'm now looking at Byte-by-Byte's Sculpt 3D program from Eric Graham,
previewing it for the upcoming Amazing Computing Video issue. (Wish I
could have had VideoScape!) Using a program like this, I can see the
immense importance of a standard format for objects. Talking with Alan
Hastings, I learned that VideoScape uses ASCII files for interchange of
created objects, similar to Aegis Animator. Poking around in Sculpt 3D, I
see it uses something that looks like IFF, but with new hunks. Grr! I
think an interchange program will be of the greatest import to the future
legions of three-dimensional program users. I don't want to nag, Bill, so
instead I'll pick up the ball myself. If I pester Eric Graham to release
and document his object format, will Hastings release his format, so
SOMEONE can consider an interchange program? (Ah, I saw the message you
posted this this effect later in the message base… Still, could you post
an early version of the spec?)
Yes, there will be sample animations and a ton of predefined objects (from
Infinite Loop and elsewhere). I'm really excited with what the video
industry will be able to create with VideoScape 3D.
After a long wait, several questions and explanations, I finally got a copy
of Infinite Loop today. WOW!!!!! This is what the personal computer world
has been waiting for (In video applications at least) My compliments to
both Aegis and Alan for an incredible demo. Will the program come with any
sample animations for tutorials?
You can put whatever you want in the serial file. We do not expect any
reply. Your idea of using another computer (C64?) as a solonoid controller
is a good one. Good luck.
Thanks – what you describe sounds adaptable to my use, although I'm afraid
no one makes RS232 based controllers for Bolex H16's. I'll obviously have
to roll my own. Two more questions:
(1) Can I write my own file with whatever I want in it and give it your
"special name"?
(2) Does the RS232 controller have to send a message back to Videoscape
when it's captured the frame?
Just a thought, but I could hook another computer up to the Amiga's serial
port and program it to wait for your command, trigger a solenoid through
its parallel port to operate the camera and then send a message back to the
Amiga. Is that roughly what your program is expecting?
Thanks, Vince