CompuServe Thread

GVP Drives?

26 messages in this thread
#28609From: Ethan SolomitaJan 3, 1989 4:53 PM
I am planning on buying the GVP 11ms 42mb hard-card. I am really confused as to whether this is a good decision or not. I don't believe that I will ever need a larger drive. My primary considerations are speed and cost. Does anyone have any comment? How good are these GVPs. Is the 11ms time really bull? ANY comments will be appreciated. Thanks, — Ethan
#28679From: Don Curtis/SYSOPJan 3, 1989 10:31 PM
Ethan, No idea on the GVC…just a general comment… You never have enough storage. At work, I've got about 10 GIGabytes of storage available…and am constantly looking for more. At home, I've got more than 200 3.5" floppies, all in use except the 2 boxes I just bought and a 20 Meg HD that's 80% or more full all the time, plus a 10 Meg HD on the MS-DOS side of the A2000, plus about 200 5.25" floppies for the MS-DOS side. If I could afford it, I'd plug in a 100 Meg HD on this baby and still not be happy with the amount of storage I've got. It's amazing the amount of stuff I toss because I don't have room to store it all. In other words, get as big a drive as your money will allow. Don
#28734From: John DraperJan 4, 1989 12:24 AM
Don, Hear hear! I have about 250-300 3.5" floppies, and 2 Hard Drives that total 110 megs. Quite a few of the floppies are taken up by backups, but that's still a lot of storage. I still think wistfully about fast, embedded SCSI drives of 300 megs, and if I had one, I can be fairly certain that I would want a 600 megger within 6 months to a year. -larry
#28737From: Don Curtis/SYSOPJan 4, 1989 12:27 AM
Larry, We just got 9 300 Meg SCSI drives at work…and I was half tempted to bring one home for a day just to see if I could work with it. I didn't because I didn't want to corrupt the pd sector for UNIX and because I knew if I did bring one home…I wouldn't want to take it back! Don
#28753From: John DraperJan 4, 1989 1:14 AM
Don, You may recall that I borrowed a 300 meg CDC Wren from work. You are right, you would not have wanted to take it back. 🙂 -larry
#28897From: Vic WagnerJan 4, 1989 11:34 PM
Don, sounds like you're a data junkie, just like I am….I have 100meg spinning right now….and wish I had more.
#28706From: Darron C. KnutsonJan 3, 1989 11:16 PM
Ethan, I have the GVP HC-40Q hardcard, which has the 40Mb Quantum drive which is said to have 11ms access time. I also have the autoboot roms. I have had no problems with the hardware and the software installation is a snap -everything runs from an interactive script file, from low level formatting to partitioning and installation of system software and BridgeBoard software. The system is quite fast and I am well satisfied with it. A recent issue of Amazing Computing did a comparison of the various hard disk controllers now available and GVP's product did quite well. I'd recommend running down that article and reading it. As for cost, I've seen them advertized for about $800-$850. Darron
#28739From: Bill ForcadeJan 4, 1989 12:31 AM
Ethan; I do not have the GVP hard card so I can't offer advice on that one. I do however have the GVP 2 MEG controller for the A2000. I have found both the GVP controller and GVP's customer relations effort to be superb. When I got my setup, I had a problem. I contacted GVP (who made the controller), Seagate (who made the drive), and my retailer (who sold it all to me). Of those three, only GVP made an honest effort to help with the problem. The problem turned out to be the Seagate drive, which I EVENTUALLY got the retailer to replace. For a product as expensive and complicated as a big hard drive card, it is particularly important to evaluate post-sales service. I am certain there are many quality vendors for the Amiga hard drive market. In my book GVP products and service deserve an excellent rating. I also agree with the other comment you received, that you can never have enough HD storage space. I thought my Seagate 40+ MEG drive would be huge, until I found out how useful it was to have a big HD. If I did not already have my hard drive setup, I would buy the GVP 42mb hard card (unless, of course, I could afford an 80mb version).
#28770From: David ArtJan 4, 1989 9:19 AM
Ethan, I agree with Don's comment on sizing HD's. Let your wallet determine the size. I have a GVP 20 meg for my A500 (so you can guess as to the size of my wallet 8) and have been using KS1.3 and autoboot. The GVP seems to be very well made and the company seems very responsive to customers. (A phone call to GVP produced an excellent response to a [non-hardware, customer service] problem that I had.) Autoboot is fantastic – a real pleasure after suffering through long floppy boot sequences. I have heard from others that the GVP card and Amiga LIVE! do not seem to like each other. I have had other problems with GOMF3.0 which may or may not have anything to do with the GVP, KS/WB1.3, Autoboot ROMs or some combination of the three. David
#28885From: Ethan SolomitaJan 4, 1989 10:42 PM
I also have an A500, but I have the Subsystem 500, a useful Christmas present. I can put the 2000 version hard card directly inside. Go Amigo is selling the card for $799, and due to everyones support of GVP, I think I know what I'm doing. And, no, my wallet won't get me a larger version. — Ethan
#29034From: David ArtJan 5, 1989 8:46 PM
Ethan, I'm sure that you'll be pleased. Get autoboot if you can (be sure to upgrade your A500 to KS1.3 first). The install procedure is completely automatic – just boot the GVP disk, READ THE DOC FILE, and then click the icon. David
#29046From: Ethan SolomitaJan 5, 1989 10:20 PM
Thanks for your (and everyone elses) info. The most important thing I've heard is the customer service. I've found better tech support from mail order companies than soft and hardware companies. I just have one, itty bitty question left. Is there any real advantage to my getting a regular hard drive instead of a hardcard. Is there a SCSI or ST-whatever opening at the back of the card to add more drives? — Ethan
#29208From: David ArtJan 6, 1989 9:06 PM
Ethan, I checked my manual and it says: "All the GVP IMPACT SCSI Controllers provide separate SCSI connectors, namely the 50-pin internal SCSI connector and the 25-pin external SCSI connector." I would be _very_ careful before assuming that the hardcard version will fit into the SubSystem 500 case. Even though the card will fit, the drive has an overhang to it and it may be too high to fit into the case. You might consider getting the controller card/autoboot rom/2 meg fast ram card instead. Again, I'd check dimensions very carefully, but, you might be able to install a small 3-1/2" 20 meg drive (as opposed to a big 3-1/2" 20 meg drive 8) into the 3-1/2" drive bay in the SubSystem 500. (I don't have one so I can't help you there – I've got the Impact A500 that has its own case and mounts on the left side of the computer.) One thing I do know for certain – you will really enjoy having a hard drive on the Amiga. David
#29332From: pat beaulieuJan 7, 1989 3:40 PM
I have tried the GVP HC 80 with the Subsystem and it does NOT fit! Pat.
#28790From: Art SteinmetzJan 4, 1989 1:19 PM
One contrary opinion. The bigger the hard drive, the more you have to back up! Unless you are doing large animations or are a Sysop (grin) 40 megs oughta do it. Keep infrequently used stuff on a floppy. — Art
#28917From: John DraperJan 5, 1989 12:55 AM
Love this off-site archival backup we have on CIS. 🙂 -larry
#29338From: Mike/CompuStore W-GermanJan 7, 1989 4:01 PM
Ethan, I'm selling all kind of hardware for the Amiga in W-Germany and I do have experience with every controller available for the A2000. I had the chance to compare CBM 2090, GVP Interfaces, Supra Interfaces and last but not least MicroBotics HardFrame 2000. Depending on what you are doing on your Amy, I'd recommend (on DMA- HardCards) the HardFrame 2000 because it's very fast, the softwaredrivers are VERY good and everything is just great. On NON-DMA HardCards there's only one available (GVP) that I could recommend. But as the softwaredrivers are not good at all the performance is not as good as it could be! Perhaps the softwaredevelopers of GVP will think about this and rewrite their drivers. Nevertheless it's the ONLY real non DMA hardcard available. -Mike
#29341From: John SteidlJan 7, 1989 4:36 PM
Mike: What are the advantages/disadvantages of DMA vs. non-DMA hard drives? John
#29361From: Don Curtis/SYSOPJan 7, 1989 11:03 PM
John, Non-DMA controllers require the use of the CPU to transfer data from the drive into memory…thus slowing down anything else going on in your Amiga at the time. As a general rule…it's also slower than DMA. DMA (Direct Memory Access) controllers don't need the CPU to access memory…they can do it all by themselves so the CPU isn't slowed doing the data transfer. There are quirks with either method…but as a general rule, DMA is the better way to go. Don
#29397From: Ethan SolomitaJan 8, 1989 12:40 AM
I decided to get the GVP 42mb, 11ms hardcard. Price is important to me as well as speed. the cost was $799 + $22 for autobooting eproms. I think this was a good choice, in part because GVP has a good customer service reputation. I just hope it will fit in the SubSystem 500! — Etha
#29415From: Don Curtis/SYSOPJan 8, 1989 3:16 AM
Ethan, If you haven't done so already, I'd strongly suggest you check with GVP and make sure it'll both fit and work in a SubSystem 500 before you place your order. I don't think you'd be real happy if you got the SubSystem and the GVP drive and found they didn't work together or it wouldn't fit. Don
#29435From: Mike/CompuStore W-GermanJan 8, 1989 11:30 AM
John, this is a very complex question but I'll try to answer it: Lets say you have an Amiga 200 and want the fastest system using 2 MB RAM, a fast processor and a super harddrive. Lets say you want to make a VIDEO application. As the blitter and the rest of the chipset is using DMA it would not be too good for the system, if the harddisk would access the systems memory via DMA as well (perhaps you know of the problem using the CBM 2090 controller that has DMA and having an interlaced, overscan… screen on top). Let's say you still like the systemspeed and now think of using a fast processor- accellerator like CSA 68020 with 2 MB SRAM or DRAM (32 bit wide). As CSA does not handle their 32 bit wide memory for DMA access the CPU likes to move the data from the 2090 to the memory BUT the 2090 wants DMA. This could cause the whole system to slow down and it can get slower that just using the 2090 without the fast CPU! 1. NEVER use a DMA-controller for graphics, video or whatever that is going down to the SER:, PAR:, blitter using DMA as well. 2. NEVER use a DMA-controller together with a fast CPU (or even RAM) that does not support DMA. The best results would be using the 2620 with max. 4MB of DMA'd RAM and the 2090(a), HardFrame or Supra controller with DMA or, if you are working with programs that use DMA very much, use a NON DMA-Controller (like GVP, C Ltd <continued>
#29436From: Mike/CompuStore W-GermanJan 8, 1989 11:30 AM
<continuation> or whatever's out there) and CPU's that does not support DMA (like Ronin, CMI, CSA and so on). I hope I got the message right to you and that you could understand everything I meant…. I'm not too good in english .. -Mike
#29451From: John DraperJan 8, 1989 1:59 PM
Mike, The verdict on interlaced, overscan screens impacting the 2090 is definitely not in yet. It would seem that it is dependent upon the program that is being used. For example, if UShow is showing a hires, interlaced picture, you can fire up another USahow and load a similar picture in very quick time. Also, I might point out that I have had no problem whatsoever using SER:, or PAR: with the 2090 in operation. -larry
#29423From: David ArtJan 8, 1989 9:58 AM
Michael, According to the docs supplied with it and all the literature I've seen, the GVP is a DMA interface. David
#29439From: Mike/CompuStore W-GermanJan 8, 1989 11:59 AM
David, no, GVP is using a *pseudo DMA* thing? MicroBotics, Supra and CBM are the only ones (of that I do know) that they use DMA. -Mike