#Targa 32+ Ver 2.0
29 messages in this thread
To All:
Targa Ver 2.0 Manual and Docs Acquired July 91 Like new working order, with 2
Cables ($50 each when New) Tips Paint program ($795 when New) Tips TypeRight
($350 when New) Truevision Setup Disks Upgraded with Windows and Anipro
drivers. Targa 32+ ($1795 when New)
Targa 32+ is a 32 bit framebuffer with NTSC SVHS and RGB input/output. Which
can frame grab and output an NTSC/RGB/SVHS signal at 32 bit. Resolutions up to
1024x768x256 with 512x486x16m typical usage.
All included for Sale at $800, Going going gone…
E-mail now, if interested.
Oooohhhh are you buying a new frame buffer? An Illuminator Pro? I'm jealous
=-)
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
Actually, John I think I want to get the TV-1024/32, its got what I need and is
half the price. Here's my reasoning. The PAR is coming tomorrow, the EXABYTE is
on order and what else do I need? If I was considering going the MAX route
which I was, I would go the Ill Pro for sure. But with the PAR this becomes an
unneeded device as the 1024/32 has a built in processor for Windows will work
at screen resolutions of 1024×768, 756×486 and 720×486 with NTSC and SVHS
output. Kinda like your MGA, except your MGA doesn't have video ouput or does
it? I'm not relying on the PAR for high end and quite frankly I wouldn't use
the MAX for that either. I think their is going to be marginal performance gain
with the MAX but it won't be artifact free either. Yes there are some nice
things like the built in TBC and DVE, but I haven't needed them yet and with
the Exabyte I can frame grab Hi-res all I want "Loss-less" and in a very
convienent format Hi-8 tape. Which makes storage a breeze as opposed to relying
on a HD. Plus I can work with the Images in Windows, which is where the Exabyte
ASDG interfaces anyway. No I'm not a big fan of Windows, as you know, but with
a descent 80Mhz 17" SVGA monitor, I think it should work very well. That's
where the difference in cost between going the Ill Pro route and the TV1024
display comes in, the price of a new monitor. <g> So JT what do you think? 🙂
-JE
John,
>> TV-1024/32 …. The PAR is coming tomorrow, the EXABYTE is on order <<
sounds like a fine combo – I'm very envious. I've be singing the praises of the
PAR/Exabyte combo for freelancer animators for probably 9 months although,
ironically, I've never had the money to buy either 🙁 I'd really want a project
that would necessitate their use _before_ laying my money down. Over cautious?
Maybe. Safe? Definetely <g>.
Martin,
I hadn't realised that you had been singing the praises of the combo as I know
we've been in and out of these different topics over the last 9 months. But be
that as it may be, I'm certainly in accord with your conclusions. Personally,
if my situation didn't warrant it, I would hold off as well. The technology
continues to change, and if you don't need it, there's no reason to buy it. I'm
kinda envious that you haven't needed to. 🙂 And you got to go to Australia,
which in the grand scheme of living makes a lot more sense. 🙂 Thanks for your
thoughts and support.
-JE
Howdy John,
Wondering if you're the same John Ellis from a company called Audio Visual,
locale: Dayton Ohio on Dorthy Lane?
Just wonder'n…
debi
Sorry Debi, I was in Dayton once twenty years ago, but there do seem
to be more than a few John Ellis' in Video/Audio/Animation, and there
aren't that many of us around. <g>
Well,
Thanks for the reply any who…
debi
John,
Whoa! PMJI, but don't do it! And I like the 1024-32 board (was sorry
to give mine up). You'd have to pick up one used, since it was discontinued by
Truevision some months ago. It does not have video out, although it can be run
in a 756×486 interlaced mode that can be encoded or transcoded with an external
box. Do not, in any way, compare this product to an Ill Pro or MGA. Uh-uh, no
way, uh-uh!
Unfortunately, you can't run it non-interlaced for these video-compatible
resolutions, so forget that fancy monitor, unless you're going to run non-video
resolutions and use an external high-res scan converter. Best bet otherwise is
a long-persistence 15-35 kHz scan analog RGB monitor.
Since there is no video input, there is no genlock or way of syncing for a
quality video out signal. Also, according to Pete Birkel, the ADI programmer
at Truevision, the 3D Studio R3 driver is still not completed (definitely a
back-burner item).
If you need a high-res Windows desktop, you might consider coming up with the
bucks for the Targa 2000. That ships in March or April with 20M on board – 4M
VRAM for a 2-page 24-bit Windows display, with separate output of 640×480 NTSC
& S-Video out. It includes video-in-a-window, ability to record
video-out-of-a-window, real-time 60fps capture & playback to your system's SCSI
hard disk with built-in JPEG compression. 3DS drivers are included.
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
Kevin,
Thankyou for your input. It was not my intent to suggest that there was a more
than a passing similarity with the MGA. Both the Targa 2000 and Illuminator Pro
are out of the question. Both of these boards are maximum overkill for what I
need. I do need to be able to see either composite or SVHS out, but this is
only for color check and luminance levels. I may have been misinformed or
misunderstood the 1024's ability to do this. I do need a decent 17" SVGA
monitor regardless. If you paint in Windows and you want to spare your
eye-sight, I think its a must. I've got a beautiful 720 line Broadcast monitor
which has the NTSC bandwidth and SMPTE Type C phosphors. But for Windows
1024x768x32 makes sense and to make it all work properly you need a larger
monitor. I've thought about the Illuminator at considerable length, but seeing
the full screen image requires toggling the screen to full view mode at
720×486. This does not seem practical. While the Targa 2000 is no doubt a
wonderful board, I wouldn't use a tenth of its potential. And neither the
Illuminator Pro for that matter. While they've discontinued the 1024 there are
still some new ones around but your point about composite out etc. is well
taken, so I guess I'll keep looking.
Thanks,
-JE
John: When you get your PAR installed and discover the "View" button
in the PAR dos software you may find your quest unnecessary. If you
do need a frame buffer, better look for something that improves on
752X480 res. You'll view the targas right from the Dos drive with
the CAV or composite output from the PAR board at the PAR resolution.
You can view old targa+ res too but it doesn't fill the screen and
the aspect ratio is off. (makes the pictures tall) Of course if you
need to view animation then that has to come from the PAR drive after
the compression. Currently I'm trying hard to justify keeping the
targa+. The PAR seems to be replacing more and more of the features I
use in the targa+. So far the only thing left is non-artifact laden
frame grabbing at lower resolution. When faster hard drives get
developed even that may be a looser to the PAR.
I was unaware that one can view targa's on the PAR. Can this be done from
within 3DS like with an ATVista, Ill Pro or Targa+? If this is the case, add
another point to the PAR's nice list of features!
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
So far I have not been able to figure how this can be done. A good
reason to keep a frame buffer like my Targa handy to do test renders
of stills at low res. (512×486) before switching to the PAR for
rendering the animation at full resolution of 752X480. I want to try
the 3DSshell and port out to the PAR program. My next experiment to
try but I really don't see any advantage to this at this time.
Probably won't be a wise use of limited memory resources.
Hmmmm… seems like being able to use the PAR's framebuffer like a
Targa+ or ATVista would have been a natural. I wonder if this will
ever be implemented? Where you would select the PAR as a rdpadi, but
be able to render single .tga's to it just for still previews.
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
>>view targa's on the PAR?…
JT, depending on what you mean… You can 1) easily view TGAs that have been
previously copied to or rendered to the PAR by using the PAR.EXE control
program, or 2), view TGAs rendered (compressed) directly to the PAR from 3DS.
You can even Render Region, etc., directly to the PAR and view the results on
the attached monitor, so in effect, it seems to function somewhat like a
general purpose framebuffer.
However, you cannot (from what I can tell now) easily view existing TGAs, maps,
etc. from within 3DS (as in Render/View) without jumping thru some hoops, such
as assigning the bitmap to the background and rendering the background to the
PAR. This works but is pretty slow.
In addition, relying on the PAR as a development framebuffer would have at
least three major disadvantages: 1) you have to wait till the whole image is
rendered to see the results (so you can't abort part way thru the rendering
when you've seen enough), 2), when rendering to regions, previously rendered
regions will not remain on the image for comparison, and 3), the framebuffer
option in the Materials Editor would not be usable. The first two are
compelling reasons for me to keep a close guard on my ATVISTA. In addition,
the PAR driver eats some conventional and takes a couple of meg of extended
memory away from the renderer, so it may be desirable to work in 3DS without it
loaded at times.
Please note that these are preliminary thoughts – I've only had my gnarled
little fingers on the PAR for a few hours. More later…
J K J
Thanks for the info, John!
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
And keep in mind that if you use the par as a display
framebuffer, your not looking at clean full color images anymore, but
compressed jpegs, and the few stills I've looked at in the few short
hours I've been playing with it have not been too impressive (looks
much better when they're moving!), however, I still need to try
various settings to see if I can improve on these early still
tranfers. After I've played for a couple days, I'll post my PAR
impressions here, but I will say, for a 3ds framebuffer, I'll not be
letting go of my Targa anytime soon!
David
David,
>> but I will say, for a 3ds framebuffer, I'll not be letting go of my Targa
anytime soon! <<
Yeah, I've pretty much come to the same conclusion.
-JE
P.S. Glad we're going through the same thing right now, I'll be interested in
your impressions. (Got mine yesterday or was it the day before… <g>)
David:
For stills, keep the PAR Block factor at 250 and the Q at 23 for best
quality…
Greg Pyros
Greg,
I tried transferring the same targa in still mode at Q23 and
several block settings ranging from 100 to 500, and there was no
noticable difference between any of them. Are you sure the block
setting is used in still mode? It looks like a default is
automatically used for stills.
I've had my system lockup several times since installing the
PAR, but it seems to be random, and in different programs, even at
the dos prompt once. Looks like I've got a little troubleshooting to
do.
David
PS. Schrieber just sent me the Yost #1 disk I ordered, and it was the old
one. I didn't think they were supposed to be shipping those anymore until the
update was released. Could you make sure the update still gets out to me?
Thanks.
I'm still confused on this but I was under the impression that the BLF isn't
used in rendering stills but it was fixed at 512 or a limit of 256Kb file size?
This would equate to a 4:1 compression ratio.
I agree, PAR ain't no framebuffer and won't replace it or the laser disk!. I
am interested in your further impressions. I noticed the artifacting in smooth
solid or gradient backgrounds on stills, nearly unnoticable with motion. I
think the quality is more than enough for final output for the scientific,
industrial, and fun stuff I generally do. A sure flic killer and VTR saver,
but keep the Targa/VISTA.
BTW, (I'll type this real fast so the thread evaluators won't even
notice it <g>), I've been meaning to comment on the images you've
been uploading. Magnificant. I could not believe the realism in the
whale pictures. And the spider! I've been keeping that image
fullscreen on one computer at times just so I can look at it. (The
background, a photo? Could you expound on the tool handle in the
foreground, especially the metal part?)
Thanks also for the object to map method – I've been putting index
marks on the object and wild-guessing for non-spherical and
non-cylindrical objects. Great technique – we should all send you
money! <G> Feel like sharing your numbered grid file(s)?
J K J
John,
I'm going to try to hold off on any 'PAR quality' comments until I've
had the chance to throw several things at it, but it sure is a breeze to use.
Unfortunately 3ds crashed out in the middle of a 600 frame render today, but
the par ani file was safe and sound, so I just need to render the remaining
frames and join the ani files (couldn't be easier).
"Flic killer" sure is true, I don't think I'll ever render one again (except
for keyframer previews).
Thanks for the comments on the whale and spider pics. You asked about
the spider background, check out "wdyard.jpg" in lib 9 (if you haven't
already). And the shovel in the foreground? The shapes are simple lofts, and
the material is "corroded metal" from the 3ds.mli. Its mapping options were
modified (u/v scale and rgb tint) and settings changed a bit.
Money you say? SURE! Shall I post my address?<g> The grid is a quick
task that can be done in any paint/illust. package, and the size would depend
on the object being mapped.
David
I agree about the targa+ FB here too. I just won't get along without those
few things that the targa+ does. I will say the the targa+ has become my
preview device for materials editor though. I have two more of my regular
clients to see this thing and so far all are excited about the improved quality
over the targa+.
I have decided to keep my Diaquest for a month and if I don't use it in that
time it's outta here! It goes to the highest bidder. I have not run the DQ
since last Wednesday and normally it got several hours use per day.
John,
Well, the 1024-32 is a wonderful card, if you can pick up one cheap
enough. It handled AutoCAD well (accelerated), and was great for flics and
24-bit rendering with 3DS R2, so if they complete an R3 driver, you'll have a
bit of life left in it. Just recognize the limitations, and pay accordingly.
Oh yes, definitely NO video out (RGB out only, with horizontal & vertical sync
– I think there may be a sync-on-green setting), although the interlaced mode
is at a compatible frequency (15.7234 kHz) for encoding.
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
Thanks Kevin, I think your perspective is right on target. I'll just
have to keep evaluating until I find something to fit the nitch.
>> It includes video-in-a-window, ability to record video-out-of-a-window,
real-time 60fps capture & playback to your system's SCSI hard disk with
built-in JPEG compression. 3DS drivers are included.
This sounds like a competitive contender for PAR customers with a few
more bucks in their budget. Sounds exciting. Krazy Ana G. first
told me about this board but no details. Can't wait to see it in
action. Guess MAX will have to think about a more competitive
pricing soon.
I'll have to call TV for a spec sheet. Any news from Diaquest future
products along this line?
Don,
I think there's a press release on the Targa 2000 in Truevision's
section of the MULTIVEN forum (library 6). List is $5995 with the minimum 20M
memory (expands to 68). It's the board they were showing at Siggraph '93. A
Mac version was demonstrated but is not announced. Market seems to be toward
non-linear editing and multimedia development. It includes Compact disk
quality audio also. Diaquest has been developing for it, ahead of Ill. Pro
support.
Kevin Krell – COmputer Support Associates
John:
I recently aquired a targa 32 board. I know nothing about framebuffers and I
have no docs with the board.
I did manage to get the board working to render 3ds images to but I have no
idea what else the board does. Can you advise?
thanks,
rich c.