#acadr13's 3dsout to r4c1
13 messages in this thread
Jonas,
I'm trying to transfer acadr13 ACIS solids from r13 into 3ds r4 and am
having no success at all. 3dsout in r13c0 is real quirky and 3ds r4c0 won't
even read r13 .dxf files.
I sent a message to Yann Bertraud on Jan 20, 95 about this problem &
e-mailed him the .dwg & .3ds files illustrating the problem. I think the file was named c6-3d.exe.
I haven't heard from him since, although I know he downloaded the e-mail.
Basically, the problems were with exporting blocks to 3ds. It appears that
all the pieces were exported from ACAD, but most blocks were rotated
incorrectly.
The .dwg was a four story building with each floor as a block and the stair
towers as one block repeated four times at different rotations. The 3dsout
command rotated three out of four floors (no floors should have been rotated
at all) and the stair towers were *not* rotated as they should have been.
I can send you a copy of the file, or you can maybe get a copy from yann.
I just received 3d studio r4c1 after hearing that it read acadr13 dxf files.
Well, it does and it doesn't. I made my .dxf file several ways, one way w/
all layers thawed and on, and another way with all the non-ACIS layers
frozen. In the first case, r4c1 translated all the *non-ACIS* objects
correctly, but completely ignored the ACIS objects. In the second case,
r4c1 reported no 3d objects in file. Am I missing something, or was it
intended that r4c1 *not* read ACIS objects?
Also, I keep hearing about the dxf3ds program. I've used this program in
the past very successfully especially for arc tessallations, but the 1991
version available on the forum won't even *try* to translate an r13 .dxf
file. Gary Yost referred me to this file recently and I was thinking that
an updated copy would be available, but no way. I *did* download the old
version just to be sure, and it definitley didn't work.
Finally, I received an r13c1 update by mail (USPS) recently, but one of the
disks appears to be defective. I don't see that r13c1 fixes the 3dsout bugs
anyway, so that doesn't look like a solution, but I'll get a good copy &
try again.
Finally (+ 1), I tried to saveasr12, but ACAD turned the ACIS solids into
*LINES*, not even polyface meshes or 3dfaces. What gives here? I know
this isn't the ACAD forum, but what was the thinking there?
I've working on a project to create a 3ds model of a large industrial site
and it's due in early February. r13 w/ ACIS is great for creating the
model, but if I can't get the thing into 3ds, I'll be checking into the
local homeless shelter soon. Any help will be appreciated.
Joe Miller
R13 DXF import (whether performed with R4c1 or the latest DXF3DS) will only
import what 3D Studio has traditionally been able to import and according to
the conventions already established for that conversion.
The new R13 entity types (splines, ellipses and ACIS solids) will be skipped.
To bring these new entities into 3D Studio simply use R13's 3DSOUT command.
This is the _only_ method to convert ACIS entities to polyface meshes (somewhat
akin to the old "SOLMESH" command). To bring splines and ellipses in as shapes
or lofts you will have to SAVEAS12, import them, and DXFOUT for 3DS usage.
Hope that helps,
– Phil
Thanks Phil,
>>The new R13 entity types (splines, ellipses and ACIS solids) will be
>>skipped. To bring these new entities into 3D Studio simply use R13's >>3DSOUT
command. This is the _only_ method to convert ACIS entities to >>polyface
meshes (somewhat akin to the old "SOLMESH" command). To bring >>splines and
ellipses in as shapes or lofts you will have to SAVEAS12, >>import them, and
DXFOUT for 3DS usage.
Except that 3dsout doesn't seem to work yet and r4c1 won't read acis entities
in a .dxf file either. I just loaded acadr13c1 and am testing 3dsout, but my
first attempts to 3dsout a file w/ acis solids (using r13c1) locked up my
machine.
As I've been asking anyone who'll talk to me, do you know of a new (> 1991)
dxf3ds.exe program. The old one won't touch an r13 .dxf file.
BTW, are you w/ ADESK or do you have to work for a living <bg to ADESK>?
Thanks again for your quick response. Any other advice will be greatly
appreciated.
Joe Miller
>>Except that 3dsout doesn't seem to work yet..
How is it not working? Remember that the same rule pertaining to DXF about
layers needing to be ON to be exported still apply to 3DSOUT.
>>and r4c1 won't read acis entities in a .dxf file either.
Correct, 3DS only reads what it has traditionally read. (FYI, the ACIS data is
encrypted within the DXF format).
>>but my first attempts to 3dsout a file w/ acis solids (using r13c1) locked up
my machine.
Hmm….How large was your model? R13's 3DSOUT (and the Renderer) mesh the ACIS
entities "on the fly" and can create _very_ large files that may soak up a lot
more resources than you think. Did you have an enormous temp file after the
crash? Also check the FacetRes variable – this controls the density of the
exported ACIS mesh. Personally, I use a Lisp routine that prompts me with its
value before initiating the 3DSOUT command.
>>do you know of a new (> 1991) dxf3ds.exe program.
Yes! The latest DXF3DS utility is here on the forum and will read R13 DXF files
as it did with previous AutoCAD releases. It's my standard method of AutoCAD to
3DS interaction (when I'm not exporting ACIS).
– Phil
p.s. Yes, I'm w/ Autodesk.
Phil,
—————————————————————————-
The discussion below mostly concerns AutoCAD, not 3D Studio, but it's about how
ACAD interfaces to 3D Studio, so I think it belongs in this forum.
—————————————————————————-
>>How is [3dsout] not working? Remember that the same rule pertaining to DXF
about layers needing to be ON to be exported still apply to 3DSOUT.
My acad .dwg consisted of a four story building exterior w/ each floor as a
block and repetitive elements within those floors (windows, etc.) as blocks. In
addition, the four stair towers were one block repeated four times,
mirrored/rotated as needed. I did it this way because it required very little
work to convert from 2d plans to 3d models.
3dsout converted all the pieces, but the rotations/mirrors were inconsistent
and incorrect. The stair towers were *not* rotated/mirrored, and some elements
within the floors *were* rotated but shouldn't have been. Yann Bertraud agrees
that this is a bug and has reported it.
I was able to workaround the rotation problems by exploding all levels of
blocks down to (but not including) the ACIS block level.
>>>>but my first attempts to 3dsout a file w/ acis solids (using r13c1) locked
up my machine. >>Hmm….How large was your model? R13's 3DSOUT (and the
Renderer) mesh the ACIS entities "on the fly" and can create _very_ large files
that may soak up a lot more resources than you think. Did you have an enormous
temp file after the crash? Also check the FacetRes variable – this controls the
density of the exported ACIS mesh. Personally, I use a Lisp routine that
prompts me with its value before initiating the 3DSOUT command.
After I solved the block rotation problem above, I encountered the size
limitation problems. My machine no longer locked up, but I got "3ds database
error" or something similar when I tried to export the entire drawing. I
exported one or two layers at a time and it worked fine. Speaking of FACETRES,
where in the docs does it tell me that FACETRES controls tessilation on
exported ACIS objects? Which brings me to some general complaints about the r13
documentation. Is it me or do the r13 docs seem more geared toward novices than
before? For instance, the 3dsout explanation in the command reference might as
well not be there. It told me nothing that I couldn't see in the dialog box.
What about some info on the size restraints of 3dsout? How 'bout some info on
exactly what ACIS is all about? I know information about ACIS is proprietary,
but there's a lot of info about it here on the forum that's not in the docs.
An ACIS appendix would have been nice.
>>Yes! The latest DXF3DS utility is here on the forum and will read R13 DXF
files as it did with previous AutoCAD releases. It's my standard method of
AutoCAD to 3DS interaction (when I'm not exporting ACIS).
So you're saying that DXF3DS won't read ACIS entities in .dxf files because
ACIS is encrypted in .dxf files. Is that going to be the story for all .dxf-
reading programs from anyone? Does the company writing .dxf translation
software need to purchase a license for ACIS from Spatial Technologies? I
presume that's the reason ACIS even shows up in .dxf files. Is that how it will
work? If so does the Yost Group or whoever needs it for 3d studio plan to buy
a license or will we be relying on 3dsout for the present & future? I agree
completely that dxf3ds is the way to go, but right now it's severly limited.
Thanks for addressing *all* the issues in my last message. Knowing that you're
w/ ADESK makes me feel better about grilling you like this. Thanks again, Joe
Miller
>>I was able to workaround the rotation problems by exploding all levels of
blocks down to (but not including) the ACIS block level.
Ouch. Glad you informed the ACAD team of that one. I'd just never encountered
it (yet).
>>R13 doc promplems et. al…….
Again, please report these (seemingly valid) observations to the ACAD forum so
the correct group hears them.
>>Is that going to be the story for all .dxf- reading programs from anyone?
I believe that third party developers need to acquire a licence to access the
ACIS library.
>>f so does the Yost Group or whoever needs it for 3d studio plan to buy a
license or will we be relying on 3dsout for the present & future?
3DSOUT is performing the same function that a DXF ACIS reader would.
Personally, I'd rather have the Yost Group work on some of the higher wish
list items <g> since ACAD is the only creature creating these DXFs and it
provides the 3DSOUT option to overcome it.
>> I agree completely that dxf3ds is the way to go, but right now it's severly
limited.
Mesh wise it's only limited in not being able to importing ACIS and ellipses.
Otherwise it has more meshing abilities and more control. If you're assigning
materials and mapping within AutoCAD then 3DSOUT is, of course, the way to go.
>>Knowing that you're w/ ADESK makes me feel better about grilling you like
this.
Don't crank up the heat too high <g>.
– Phil
Thanks, Phil, I agree that the Yost Group's efforts are better spent improving
3D Studio than creating ACIS-reading DXF translators. Thanks again for all your
help. I'm going to update Yann Bertraud on our discussions. Joe Miller
Hey Joe — Did you stop by the office to pick up the AutoCAD R13c1 update
disks?
Evan Yares, Design Automation Systems
Yes, Evan R13c1 doesn't seem to affect the 3dsout problem. Mike Ianetti thought
the problem I reported to him was fixed in R13c1, but I think he was dealing w/
dwgs w/o nested blocks. 3dsout works OK if it doesn't have to deal w/ blocks
containing ACIS entities. Joe
We've output a lot of ACIS models to 3DS at the office recently, but the ACIS
entities are not nested in a block. If I remember right, you wrote an
automatic block explosion program years ago, didn't you?
Evan Yares, Design Automation Systems
>>If I remember right, you wrote an automatic block explosion program years
ago, didn't you?<<
You remember better than I do. I probably *did* write one, but I wrote a new
one just for this occassion, mainly because I didn't remember writing the first
one. It seems I have a WORN i/o memory system in my head. You may not be
familiar w/ WORN technology: that's "Write Once Read Never". The acronym is
very appropriate.
Seriously, I did write a routine to recursively explode *all* "INSERT"s and
then write the contents of each layer out to individual .3ds files. This
technique overcomes both the "nested block" problem *and* the "number of
objects" problem. I don't know if you've run into the "3dsout database error"
message due to exporting too many objects at one time, but I've seen it more
that I care to. Joe
Joe:
Possibly you could upload a copy of your LISP routine here. The natives would
be forever grateful.
Evan Yares, Design Automation Systems
>> The natives would be forever grateful. <<
I second the motion… if you would be so kind.
– John Hutchinson
[Architectus]
76032,2234