#Transformers
17 messages in this thread
Does anyone else watch the Transformers? If you do, am I being too
critical of what seems to be an absolutely pointless use of computer animation?
The show itself appears to be done with traditional animation methods, and none
too well at that, but they use a number of different computer generated
cutscenes in what I find a very irratating manner. It seems like 1/3 of the
show is taken up by meaningless cutscenes that serve no purpose other than to
show off some very basic animation skills that are used in a manner that just
screams "Look, we have a computer but we don't know what to do with it!"
I find it very distracting to be watching an action scene that employs one
or more of these cutscenes just to pan from one character to another in the
middle of the action. They seem to be using it for no reason other than that
some computer animation is the "in" thing to do. For me, that's no reason.
Michael S. Flynn
Michael,
What network/channel is showing Transformers? Have you seen Reboot? What do
you think of that show (ABC Saturday Mornings in Michigan)?
Jim
Jim,
Transformers is shown on one of the local Portalnd area networks. For your
area, I would check whatever channel shows stuff like Exo Squad, Conan, and the
Disney afternoon shows.
Yes, I've seen Reboot a couple of times now. For what they are doing, its
pretty well done although the stories suck. They pay a lot of attention to
facial expressions which is nice. And although I would like to see a little
more detail, they really aren't lacking any either.
My biggest gripe would be the lack of shadows. Even a lot of the stuff in
the Mind's Eye and Computer Animation Festival videos forego shadows in favor
of rendering speed. One of the biggest complaints that I here from people who
aren't into computers or computer animation, is that the art loks "too
computerized". I think the lack of shadows does more to add to that effect than
anything else.
Michael S. Flynn
Michael,
I agree that it's a waste to just throw in computer animation for the
heck of it. And on your last comment about people who think computer
animation looks too "computery". Lack of shadows is one item to point
out, but that's also a factor of bad lighting. The more cinematic
approach would be to use lighting to accent the scenes and characters.
Better lighting is something I find many computer animations crying
out for. Many are way too bright. The colors are also too bright.
More "life-like" characters would help matters immensely, too. Many
of these animations have chrome "beings". The quicker we can get to
better skin textures, the better off we'll be with reactions. Of
course, many of the animations alluded to are 2 – 3 years old, so it
would kind of be expected that the knowledge then didn't allow for
what can be done now.
I also wonder about the conversion to video and 30 frames per second.
Maybe that looks too electronic. I'd love to experiment with a film
recorder. Anybody lurking out there tried that? I know it's not cheap,
but I'd like to hear what some veterans have to say. Slide 4000 line
film recorders are now around 6-Grand. Do motion picture film
recorders run much more…and can you rent 'em?
I also think less technology in the animations would get rid of some
of that "computery" feel. More realistic settings can be done. We
don't really need tons of sparks, chrome fighting robots, etc.
There's some neat stuff on some of the Computer Animation Festival
and Mind's Eye video that could be pointed out as good to emulate…
"Locomotion" comes to mind…and "Rod's Head" and "Balls & Blocks" on
the new Hash demo tape come to mind. "ReBoot" has proven that "life-
like" human characters can be done (neglecting the blue and green skin
-but what the hey, they are pioneers!), I'd personally like to see
more in that direction. The reaction I get from regular folks when
they see those I just mentioned is one of amazement and comments about
how life-like they are…and "How could a computer do that? Are you
sure it's not real?!"
Kevin
>>>"ReBoot" has proven that "life-like" human characters can be done
(neglecting the blue and green skin -but what the hey, they are pioneers!),
But isn't ReBoot a video game pretending to be a cartoon?… <G>
It does seem like it is a video game…especially every second half!<g>
Michael,
I agree that shadows would help Reboot from looking too computerish, also (as
my wife pointed out), so would some depth of field ("everything is in
focus…") and even some haze in the distance. Of course, we know this would
have killed their making the deadlines for the first season!
Kevin is right, though, if Reboot just had a larger contrast of lighting
(darker in the distance, etc..) that would also help out. BUT compare it to
Free Willy, the show that airs before Reboot. There only major difference in
look (other than hand drawn vs. computer) is shadows, Free Willy is pretty flat
as far as depth of field, etc.. But that didn't seem to both my wife that much!
It seems that the computer generated stuff gets a more critical eye than the
hand drawn stuff! (figures <G>!)
Jim
It's that old "vested interest" stuff, Jim! Be careful! <g>
>> Does anyone else watch the Transformers? If you do, am I being too
critical >>of what seems to be an absolutely pointless use of computer
animation? The >>show itself appears to be done with traditional animation
methods, and none too >>well at that, but they use a number of different
computer generated cutscenes in >>what I find a very irratating manner. It
seems like 1/3 of the show is taken up by >>meaningless cutscenes that serve no
purpose other than to show off some very >>basic animation skills that are used
in a manner that just screams "Look, we >>have a computer but we don't know
what to do with it!"
>> I find it very distracting to be watching an action scene that employs
one or >>more of these cutscenes just to pan from one character to another in
the middle >>of the action. They seem to be using it for no reason other than
that some >>computer animation is the "in" thing to do. For me, that's no
reason.
>>
>> Michael S. Flynn
Finally, I have found someone who recognizes that the cut scenes in the "new"
transformers are rather annoying, and do nothing for the show… If they were
to do it full animation, like a few transformer commercial I have seen… I
would be willing to watch… I get the feeling they used the computer animation
in order to back-up the "generation two" theme… Wasted I think…
GowIII
Grady,
What's the purpose of quoting an entire message…it reformats horribly and
just a line or two will suffice to remind one of what he said in replying…
just my 0.02 cents
Bruce
I think the animation used in the Transformers is simply to stretch a 10
animation to 20-30 minutes. I find it VERY annoying.
– Robb Canfield, Written 29-Dec-1994 @ 22:36:34
Using: Windows NavCIS PRO 1.25
Michael,
I haven't seen the Transformer cutscenes that you referred to in your
message, but I do agree with your opinion about the pointless use of computer
animation. No matter how offensive the Transformer example may be, I doubt that
it could be as bad as what I see on local TV these days. It would be impossible
to count all of the nasty looking flying logos that whirl around on my
television. But the worst use of computer animation I have seen to date belongs
to a local ambulance chaser that shows unrelated 3-D animation of furniture,
plants, and dinosaurs while trying to get business from auto accident victims.
Unfortunately this trend will probably get worse, so buckle your seat
belts.
Chris
Flynn,
Thats dead wrong, what you arte seeing is close to 80% computer
generated. because it is using a look of the more traditional animation don't
be fooled, It is very intensive computer useage at it's best. Every thing need
not look photo real. Be textured or look plastic to be computer generated or
computer rendered. 🙂
Just thought I comment….hope you don't mind.
Lee
Lee,
I don't have a problem with the way it looks except for the fact that it
is lacking in any real detail, but that is true of almost all of the shows. The
stupidly pointless scene transitions show that the story sucks so bad that they
have to take up quantities of time with essentially boring imagry to constanly
distract the viewer so they don't spend too much time saying "This really
sucks!". At least that's how I feel when I watch it.
Michael S. Flynn
MSF,
Interesting….
You must agree that any visualy serquenced story has several basic
elements, story, meter, visual impact, sound.
Of thoses inso far as this forum is con', is the visual impact in so far
as AM is or might be involved. You could if you wanted do 2D animations with AM
just as easily as 3D. it depends on how you approach the project at hand.
I love japanese animations, so much so that on my last business trip to
Japan I spent most of my free time hunting down animations to add to my current
collection. The visual impact is what I look for not story, why? because bt
watching over and over again, often frame by frame I learn more about my chosen
craft.
I think that the value in watching many animated and/or computer
animations is adding to one's own store of information. Even duplication of
such work (Copying) can teach you a lot about the technique used by the
original author. This includes solving problems in lighting, reflections,
material simulations etc….and so on.
Lee
Lee,
The stupidly pointless scene transitions show that the story sucks so bad
that they have to take up quantities of time with essentially boring imagry to
constanly distract the viewer so they don't spend too much time saying "This
really sucks!". At least that's how I feel when I watch it.
Michael S. Flynn
They have taken the original Transformers and added the transitions to pudh
the "generation 2" theme… I think it is stupid… The storys didn't suck when
I watched it when I was younger… but I is a cartoon… I beleve the
transitons are more distracting than anything… My cousins don't like them…
GowIII
Grady,
You know I never or at least rearly watch these things for the story,
mostly I look at them gor the way in which the actual images impact me, I am
constantly looking for how the artist/s solved various visual problems. So far
I havent gotten far enough into AM to do any animation at all. I hope that will
change soon.
BTW if you happen to see "Circle of Death" you will see many 3D models I
did for that animation using the Atari system. I have my own copy and have been
told that occasionally it is seen here in the states?
I am courious, what sort of work are you doing with AM? How long have you
been using it, do you have the Video training tapes?
Lee