#Vid Newbie ?
4 messages in this thread
Dudes and dudettes,
Being a total Vid newbie I have some questions. I'm doing AniPro with
aspirations of eventually graduating to 3DS. I am already
creating anims in AniPro that won't play without tearing on a PC, so obviously
I need to go to video. I plan to go the PAR route,
so I don't think single-frame recording is necessary. Some questions:
1. I think SVHS is my format of choice (based on my current lack of
knowledge). Since I'm in the market for a VHS deck for
home use right now, and since SVHS can double as a VHS deck, I thought my
FIRST step could be to go with a SVHS
deck now for home use now and anim use later! But I can't find a SVHS deck
at any local stores – is there a large range of
quality in SVHS (like are there consumer and prosumer decks, for example?).
Can anyone recommend a SVHS model that
is good quality? (so I can try to track it down mail order).
2. I hear a lot of talk here about D1, D2 quality, etc. I have a different
(and much simpler) quality requirement. OK – no fair
laughing, now – I notice that professionally produced VHS tapes have a very
good image quality – if you record a program
using a consumer VHS deck, the image is substantially poorer than the VHS
tapes you can buy – but the VHS format itself
limits it, I'm sure, to something less than D1, etc. So if I can produce
VHS tapes that are as good as commercial VHS tapes
(which must be significantly lower quality than D1, etc because of VHS
limitations) I'm a happy guy. I think that VHS would
always be my final output, as I would distribute company promos via VHS
videotape to our customers. Now the question –
am I crazy or what? Will this work and give good results? If not, what is
the weak link in my design: PC -> PAR -> SVHS -> VHS
I realize this may be a really stupid idea, but since I am not a video
engineer, I am asking the experts if I am heading in
the right direction or for trouble. Also, I realize that multi-generation
editing will degrade the quality of SVHS a lot, while
D1 will withstand multi generations w/o significant loss, but if I am
planning to do all the editing in AniPro or 3DS and just
record the final product to video (I have no customer to satisfy – when I
think it's right, it's right – I don't do this for a living,
it's just a hobby that I could also use to produce promotions for my
(engineering) company). SO, if I am planning to use
the SVHS first ( or maybe second) generation only, is it of equal quality
to commercial VHS tapes???
All you broadcast quality guys out there are probably rolling on the ground
laughing right now, but thanks for any help you can
give me in establishing a decent quality hobbyist level video output. Thank
you for your support!
Dennis
P.S. It also occurs to me that there may be some real bargains available in
3/4" decks that would hold up real well since I wouldn't
be beating them to death with single frame recording. So if you think
there is a BIG advantage to going out to them (I know
that there is AN advantage, but is it a BIG advantage, especially for
limited generations), please let me know.
P.P.S. We all know that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". I got my
little knowledge of video almost entirely from the
chapter in "Inside 3DS" which is a great book, even though I don't
have 3DS (yet!).
>> Will this work and give good results? If not, what is the weak link in my
design: PC -> PAR -> SVHS -> VHS
The weak link here is the video copy from SVHS to VHS. You would be better off
just making several copies as first generation VHS since you have stated you
will do all editing in your PAR/PC environment choosing not to do tape to tape
editing.
Since your use is strictly hobby, any discussion regarding D1, D2 or even
betacam is silly since unless you're rich, these formats are totally out of the
question. VHS recording from the PAR is the obvious choice if you want to show
your work around as you will have first generation quality compatible with the
masses. If you just want to play your work on your own deck then get a <$1000
SVHS deck, and record to SVHS. If you have $1000 to spend I would recomment
getting an SVHS deck that has insert audio and video editing capability. Then,
later on you can do some simple deck editing with a consumer edit controller
and a compatible (Hi8 with control L) camcorder as another source. Check out
the Sony SLV-1000 SVHS deck. By using regular VHS tapes you can also record to
regular VHS as well and have SVHS quality when you want it.
Commercial videos on VHS look good for two reasons. First the movies are many
times first generation recorded to VHS from a Ranck-Cintel scanner chain direct
from film either to 1' submaster or direct to duplicating decks. Or, second,
from betacam SP masters recorded in component video with very low noise in the
signal. These recordings are done with VHS duplicators designed to lay down
extra wide video tracks that have very low noise figures and can be tracked by
a wide range of consumer machines. While you can duplicate video tapes with
consumer decks the results will be much lower quality, especially when played
back on low end two head VCRs. And, sometimes, you may find some consumer
playback VCRs won't track your recording at all.
Don, Couple of questions while you're on the subject of VHS. Recently I picked
up a PAR & V-Scope and have been quite happy except for one thing – the quality
of the final VHS tape. I'm quite sure it's because I'm using a JVC consumer
deck to record on, but I really thought first generation from the PAR would be
better. It's not bad but it's not near the quality of the Siggraph '94 tape for
example. The sound output is also so-so, which I also was hoping would be
better. I'm using a TB Monterey and going through a small amp into the VCR.
What would you recommend for making first generation VHS tapes for demo
purposes etc? Would using a SVHS deck with VHS tapes be better? Any helpful
insights would be most appreciated. Thanks.
DM
Thanks for taking the time to comment. I am still a little unclear about a
couple areas though (I hate it when I don't even
know enough to know what questions to ask!)
I think I didn't represent the "chain with the weak link" properly. I meant it
as:
PC -> PAR -> SVHS deck -> VHS tape. (I didn't mean to record as SVHS and
then re-record to VHS!)
I am assuming that a quality SVHS deck (like maybe the SLV-1000 you mentioned)
is the best way to record a good VHS tape.
Is this a valid assumption? or will that deck not produce VHS results any
better than a simple VHS deck?
(I don't have Inside 3DS with me, but I thought I remembered from the
discussion there that a SVHS deck could record a
VHS tape – if not then that is my mistake!)
Also, I know this is a very SUBJECTIVE area, but what level of quality can I
expect from such a system – is it ALMOST as good
as commercial VHS tapes, for instance? If it's closer to my home (consumer
VHS deck) recorded VHS tapes than to commercial
VHS tapes, for example, this exercise might not be worth doing!
Thanks again for any insight you can give. I'm just trying to find out if it
is worthwhile to start down this road. It seems that
playback of anims on PC's is still pretty limited, so if video isn't a viable
option for me, it might be time to take up
stamp-collecting instead!(g)
dennis