#PAR TBCIV length
28 messages in this thread
My PAR board is full length. Is the TBCIV full length as well?
I can't fit any more into my motherboard. 🙁 TIA.
Paul S.
Yes, it is another full length board and it MUST sit right next to the PAR as
the cable connecting them both is only around 2 inches long. You will have to
make room for it.
>> Yes, it [TBCIV] is another full length board and it MUST sit right next to
the PAR as the cable connecting them both is only around 2 inches long. You
will have to make room for it. <<
I have a P60 with a PCI bus. My motherboard has 3 PCI slots, and only 5
ISA slots, and the middle three ISA slots are lined up with the CPU fan, so
that only half-length cards fit well. I currently have the PAR board highest,
and my Targa+64 lowest. I was able to place a full-length sound card/fax/modem
above the Targa+, but had to bend it slightly to make the end fit under the CPU
fan. :-0
The only options I see at this point are:
1. Put the PAR on the bottom, with the TBCIV above it, and slightly bend it
down at the end (if it is flexible).
2. Remove the CPU fan, and perhaps mount a rack alongside the cards to blow
air over the cards and onto the CPU.
3. Spend big bucks (700-800?) to buy a motherboard with more ISA slots.
Pros/cons? Any other options? TIA.
Paul S.
Paul,
<< The only options I see at this point are:..2. Remove the CPU fan, and
perhaps mount a rack alongside the cards to blow air over the cards and onto
the CPU.>>
Do you know where we could get such a product? We have a Pentium box that we'd
like to put our Targa+ out to pasture in. Unfortunately, the motherboard(?)
of this box was not designed with full length ISA cards in mind: the ISA slots
are blocked by the CPU fan, and a heat sink on another chip<grr…>
I wonder if a fan on a card near the CPU could replace the CPU fan and heat
sink? Is there anything else to cool a Pentium that adds less than 1/4" to
the chip height?
-Donald
Donald,
>> I wonder if a fan on a card near the CPU could replace the CPU fan and heat
sink?
Well, this probably isn't authorized, but we put together a little lunchbox P90
system, and the CPU sits right under the built-in monitor, but wouldn't fit
with the fan, so we just unscrewed it from the heatsink, (which we left on),
and haven't had a problem in close to 6 months, with no fan at all except the
little one that pulls air out of the case. Remember, they're only running at
3.3 volts. And there *is* a company that makes a heatsink without a fan for the
P90, but it's higher than the standard ones. Personally, I think a fan mounted
somewhere inside blowing on the CPU should be fine, but do it at your own risk.
John
John,
Thanks for the encouragement!
-Donald
>> Do you know where we could get such a product? [fan rack blowing air over
cards and CPU] <<
We had talked about building one from scratch, creating a mounting bracket
parallel to the cards (I have a mid-tower case with horizontal cards and a
vertical motherboard), as there are a couple of inches of room on the "near
side." Then mounting up to three fans to blow over the cards. I was concerned
about heat from my PAR, PAR drive (Conner 1.2G), and Targa+. We ended up just
mounting a second fan blowing out an auxiliary vent, and another fan blowing
in, parallel to the lower cards, at the opposite end of the case. It rests
right in front of some intake vents, so it helps draw in fresh air (if I would
place my tower in the window I'd have a hyper-cooled unit <g>). This
arrangement seems to keep everything cool, but the @!%*! CPU fan is still in
the way.
I'm not sure if my P60 chip is 3.3 volts or 5.? volts. It was a fairly
early chip. My tech dudes are 50/50 on whether or not it is safe to remove the
CPU fan and try the above method.
I'll call Fri. or Sat., maybe Sat. afternoon to meet?
Paul S.
Paul,
Saturday would be fine!
-Donald
>>fan club…
My Gateway P5-66 came with a short heatsink on the chip and a separate fan.
(mounted about where a speaker is usually in a tower case) The fan blew air
across the case but not directly on the chip, so I made a plastic baffle to
direct the air onto the chip. I think a separate 12v muffin fan mounted
anywhere in the case where it could blow air on the chip would work. Just make
a bracket out of sheet metal and run power from a disk drive pigtail. I
currently have one of these in each computer blowing air across the big
Micropolis drives – keeps them near room temperature instead of frying pan
temperature.
JKJ
John,
Thanks for the suggestion! I noticed the fan arrangement on one of
our Gateways too. I also just saw an ad for "PC Power and Cooling,
Inc. (800) 722-6555 in PC Mag. that sells cooling systems for PCs.
They have some cheap card fan units and they also sell (cheap)
temperature alarms.
The problem is trying to do everything with one computer. I gave that up long
ago. Either ditch the Targa or the Sound card. Neither PAR nor TBC will allow
you much room to flex.
<< Neither PAR nor TBC will allow you much room to flex >>
Speaking of flexing . . .
Gus, is there any hope that there will, someday, be a way to have the PAR drive
be recognized over a network? (Just for DOS operations).
Also, can you explain why the PAR's speed at importing targas seems to vary. Is
the rate dependent upon the amount of video information or such thing?
Is is likely that the import time will be significantly decreased by some
delopment in the PAR compression hardware/software anytime soon?
Inquiring minds want to know . . .
Alec Jason
A network version of PARDRV would have to be written. I have no idea if DPS has
that in mind.
I'm not sure I understand the speed question. At any rate, what takes time in
the PAR is the transfer of data between the PC and the PAR (board). That
connection is 16 bits and slow. Another bottle neck is from your local disk to
the PAR (even worse if goes through the network). The difference in speed could
be due to compressed Targas. The smaller the file size, less time to transfer
it over.
The single most important speed problem would only be solved by major hardware
change. This, by the way has to do with data coming and going from the PC to
the PAR. It's got nothing to do with the PAR's own disk to video speed. They
would have to implement a better bus interface. As it is, the throughput is
below 250k/sec. The ISA bus (16 bits) should have no problems pumping data over
10M/sec.
>> The problem is trying to do everything with one computer. <<
Is the short jumper from TBCIV to PAR a standard type, or could it be
easily modified to be extended (the closest I can mount two full-length ISA
cards to each other is 3 slots apart, unless I bend one around the CPU fan)?
If not, I'm SOL as far as having both on my motherboard w/o removing the CPU
fan.
SLOTS:
PCI
PCI
PCI
ISA full full full PAR
ISA half CPU
ISA half CPU
ISA half CPU <– I can bend a flexible card here.
ISA full full full TARGA+64
Paul S.
It's a flat ribbon cable. I guess you could make a longer one yourself but than
the timing becomes an issue. Why not put the PAR/TBC on a separate machine?
>> Why not put the PAR/TBC on a separate machine? <<
$… lack of it at the moment. Had planned to get a laptop next, but may
just go for a 486 midtower instead for the PAR, etc. Is the PAR as dependent
on CPU power as, say, 3DS? Thanks again.
Paul S.
>> Is the PAR as dependent on CPU power as, say, 3DS? Thanks again.
Nop. Not at all. Again, it all depends on what and how you use. Check the
classifieds and/or for sale type news groups. You should be able to find a 486
system for less than $500 (not much memory not much disk space but who cares).
>> You should be able to find a 486 system for less than $500 (not much memory
not much disk space but who cares). <<
Sounds like I'll be needing to get Lantastic or some such solution to
network the machines. Thanks for all of the info, Gus.
Paul S.
Paul;
>> unless I bend one around the CPU fan)?
Send me the card and I'll get it bent in the sheet metal shop.
<g, d, & r>
Dennis
<g>
Not only is it full length, it's just as thick and bulky as the PAR. I had to
rearrange everthing and do some filing inside my computer to make make
everything fit.
JKJ
>> Not only is it full length, it's just as thick and bulky as the PAR. <<
Is it as rigid too? See my message to Gus.
Paul S.
Paul,
<< Is it as rigid too?>>
The TBC IV is built like the PAR — it is a pretty heavy-duty board — I don't
think you would want to try bending it!
–Donald
>>…and do some filing inside my computer to make everything fit.<<
Funny, but when I installed my PAR and TBCIV, I had to find someplace _else_ to
do my filing! Dang folders were in the way! <BG>
-Alan (Sorry, JKJ, but GregP's sense of humor, I think, is rubbing off!)
Alan:
>> -Alan (Sorry, JKJ, but GregP's sense of humor, I think, is rubbing off!)
OK, you got me! I actually laughed at your joke before I saw your signature!
Greg Pyros
>>Dang folders were in the way…
Alan, NEVER let those guys fold your dangs. They will leave creases and ruin
them. Get them out of the computer room immediately.
(Ack, the GregP curse is happening to me too, somebody help…
<g>
-Alan (you'd think that with a name like "dang folders", they'd be able to at
least get the job done right!)
JKJ:
>> Ack, the GregP curse is happening to me too, somebody help…
it's working…… :^)
Greg Pyros