#EPS file output
13 messages in this thread
The R4 manual implies that the EPS file format output is compatible
with the Adobe Systems language description. However, the EPS files
I have produced from 3DS are not readable by Adobe Photoshop. I have
also found that the IPAS routine that is supposed to configure the
EPS output from the renderer ignores the image size and DPI input
producing instead images of another size and specification.
I have followed the instructions in the manual explicitly. Can you folks shine
a little light on this for me?
<< Can you folks shine a little light on this for me? >>
I'll have the developer of the routine review your post.
PhotoStyler, (at least ver 2.0), also doesn't recognize 3DS EPS
output. But WordPerfect Win/6.0a and AutoCAD R12/Win both read it in
just fine. Unfortunately, PhotoStyler and PhotoShop are the two
programs I'd *most* like EPS to work with.
Not all EPS files can load into PhotoShop or PhotoStyler. PhotoShop can read
EPS bitmap files that it saved itself, and I'd guess that they made PhotoStyler
handle that variant of EPS, too.
The EPS standard is nothing more than a few conventions for some very minimal
comments at the head of the file that document the clip art's size on the page,
which fonts it might use, etc. Within the EPS file, you can have almost any
series of PostScript commands.
This sort of confusion also happens with Adobe Illustrator files, too. AI saves
its own drawings in EPS-like files. You can save an AI drawing as EPS and load
it back into AI just fine, but AI can't read any EPS file, it can only read the
ones that happen to format their PostScript commands in the same way that AI
does.
In theory, Autodesk could write EPS files that conform to PhotoShop's method of
saving EPS bitmaps. But why bother? Just use some other standard bitmap
format that PhotoShop can load instead.
John,
>> Just use some other standard bitmap format that PhotoShop can load instead.
Yea; that's what I do. I was just commenting on it as a curiosity.
John
EPS output from 3D Studio is designed to be brought into a document layout
program. When you are bringing images into image processing programs, like
Photoshop or Photostyler, you will do much better to import a truecolor TIFF or
TGA image. Also, Adobe EPS files are rather unique in the postscript world and
(as you found out) not all EPS file can be read by those programs.
-Brian
Hi Michael,
The developer had the following thoughts to share..
"The EPS that we produce does indeed meet the Adobe specification, however,
Adobe Photoshop requires a very specialized version of EPS to read. This
should not be a problem, because Photoshop can read a lot of image file formats
that are supported by 3DS. I would recommend either TIFF or TARGA (since they
both support 24 bit formats).
Just for your background, EPS output makes more sense either for printing
directly or for bringing into page layout programs that may not support image
formats.
Finally, regarding the last point I am unaware of any problems with setting
the size. My guess is that the person misunderstands how it works. Anyway
more info is required before the last problem (size and DPI) can be addressed."
and..
"Again, I would think that PhotoStyler also should not be a problem since it
reads many image file formats. Maybe you could ask him what advantage he sees
in producing EPS for import into these programs instead of some other image
format. After all EPS does not support compression so he can get smaller files
via other means."
Jonas and Brian,
It is understood that EPS output is for the use of Postscript hardcopy output.
The question you are asking is why would anyone want to bring an EPS file into
an image editing program? The idea is to check the image prior to printing.
Of course a targa or tiff file can be loaded in Photoshop, that's not the
point.
The point is that if the EPS output is ADOBE compatible then I should be able
to open it in ADOBE software. Especially, Photoshop. If it won't then it
isn't compatible.
>> My guess is that the person misunderstands how it works.
As for the DPI/image size issue. It is a well documented fact that the R4
manual is less than completely lucid in many areas. Try it. Render an 8×10
image at 150 DPI and see what you get. The result will be relative to the
resolution of the render image setting, but not the size specified in the EPS
configuration dialogue. This is immediately apparent when the image is brought
into a DTP program like Quark Express. Perhaps "the person misunderstands"
something that is not apparently well documented. …
Still awaiting enlightenment.
Michael B.
Hi Michael,
from the developer…
"> It is understood that EPS output is for the use of Postscript hardcopy
> output. The question you are asking is why would anyone want to bring an
> EPS file into an image editing program? The idea is to check the image
> prior to printing. Of course a targa or tiff file can be loaded in
> Photoshop, that's not the point.
>
> The point is that if the EPS output is ADOBE compatible then I should be
> able to open it in ADOBE software. Especially, Photoshop. If it won't
> then it isn't compatible.
The EPS file format is spelled out in detail in Appendix H of the second
edition of "PostScript Language Reference Manual" by Adobe Systems Incorporated
also knows as the "red book". A brief quote from that section may be of some
use. From page 709 "An encapsulated PostScript file is a PostScript language
program describing the appearance of a single page. Typically,
the purpose of the EPS file is to be included, or "encapsulated", in another
PostScript language page description. The EPS file can contain any combination
of text, graphics, and images, and it is the same as any other PostScript
language page description with only a few restrictions."
The EPS file produced by 3DS R4 is fully compatible with that format. However,
Adobe PhotoShop does not claim to be able to import any EPS file and in fact it
can not in general read other programs' EPS files. It would in fact have to
have an entire PostScript interpreter to do so as implied by the above
description of what an EPS file is.
> As for the DPI/image size issue. It is a well documented fact that the R4
> manual is less than completely lucid in many areas. Try it. Render an
> 8×10 image at 150 DPI and see what you get. The result will be relative to
> the resolution of the render image setting, but not the size specified in
> the EPS configuration dialogue. This is immediately apparent when the image
> is brought into a DTP program like Quark Express. Perhaps "the person
> misunderstands" something that is not apparently well documented. …
Perhaps the description in the reference manual is not clear. Let me attempt
to explain. On page 59 of "3D Studio New Features" manual it says that the
page size "sets the width and height of the output on which the output image is
centered." Note this is the size of the output page, NOT the image.
Also on page 59, the resolution setting is described as "sets the resolution in
dots per inch or millimeter … The larger the resolution value, the higher the
quality of the image, but the smaller the resulting size." This may seem a
somewhat strange way to control the size, but is driven by the way plug-ins
interface to 3DS. A BXP plug-in, such as the EPS plug-in, can not control the
size of the image in pixels. The user must do this via the
Renderer/Setup/Configure menu.
So, in the case described above the user runs the EPS PXP and specifies 150 dpi
and whatever page size they want the image centered on and in the
Render/Setup/Configure menu set a width of 1200 (8 inches times 150 dpi) and a
height of 1500 (10 inches times 150 dpi) and then render the output.
Hopefully this clears up the confusion."
Developer,
Thanks for the discussion of image size, page size, and the relationships of
pixel resolution and DPI. That does help clear up the issue somewhat. Too bad
it is not more thoroughly discussed in the documentation.
Can you explain why these files cannot be reviewed in Photoshop?
Michael B.
Hi Michael,
Well.. the previous post said, " However, Adobe PhotoShop does not claim to be
able to import any EPS file and in fact it can not in general read other
programs' EPS files."
Maybe PhotoShop tech support can answer this one? I truely don't know. Sorry.
jonas[adesk]
<<Can you explain why these files cannot be reviewed in Photoshop?>>
the bottom line is Adobe EPS files are a different flavor than a generic EPS
file. The files themselves have header information that needs to be in a
specific order, and misc. information that is not needed for other EPS files.
Most packages that support Adobe Photoshop and the like, don't just claim EPS
support, but Adobe EPS compatability.
-Brian
OK, Brian, Jonas,
Thanks for the clarification. Everybody seems to have turf to protect, hence
sticky tricky file format specifications for Adobe EPS files. Anyway, it is
good to be able to output EPS files from 3DS.
It is great to have such good support for these questions.
Michael B.