#YG/NT deep background
57 messages in this thread
Due to some wild rumors and speculation about our motivations for moving to NT,
I just thought that I'd give you another piece of information about the Yost
Group's history regarding this decision.
Two years ago, I was talking to a friend of mine at Wavefront, Dr. Don Brittain
(their VP of Technology & Development from 1985->) about future operating
systems. Don and I were "trade show buddies" and since Don was a big 3DS fan
(and one of the few folks interested in PC's at Wavefront) we had a lot in
common.
In this particular conversation, Don told me that he was planning on leaving
Wavefront because they weren't interested in porting their Advanced Visualizer
over to NT. He told me that he'd done a very thorough technical analysis of
NT's system services and architecture, and felt that it would be a BETTER
platform than Unix for what Wavefront wanted to do in the future. Upper
management, however, decided that they didn't want to get involved in the PC
market in any way, shape or form.
At this point, our conversation got pretty interesting, because I was also
looking at different operating systems. It was October 1992, and I was
EXTREMELY frustrated with DOS, Phar Lap, etc. I shared this with Don, and we
began a running dialog over the next few months about all of the issues
relating to doing 3D software development on various operating systems.
Eventually, in December, we decided that it would be a good idea for him to fly
up to San Francisco for a meeting with my group about whether or not he'd be up
for jumping ship from Wavefront to the Yost Group.
He came up here in the first week of January, and we all hit it off right away.
His 7 years of experience running the Wavefront development group gave him an
overview of the highly-complex system architecture that we needed, and we made
him an offer to come in as a full partner in the Yost Group that week.
Don accepted the offer and started life anew with the Yost Group on February 1,
1993. He spent all of 1993 doing prototypes and OS research, and every single
thing we discovered along the way made us even MORE enthusiastic about NT.
I normally wouldn't be sharing all of this history with you, but there are a
couple of disgruntled folks on the forum who think that we were somehow
Shanghai'd to develop for NT. NOT TRUE. This was a very big decision for us,
and we went into it carefully and deliberately. I'm more excited about the
possibilities for what we can do under NT than I EVER was about DOS, and if
you're into 3DS, you've got a lot to look forward to over the next five years.
– G
Gary,
The whole Video/Graphics/Communications/Network community seems to agree with
your decision. All the developers agree that NT is the most stable operating
system available. I don't fully understand all this misaprehension, but it
certainly is the right move at the right time, and in this crazy market, being
right on the money, time after time, is really a feat which most 3DS'ers
appreciate.
The fact that you had the foresight two years ago, makes it all that more
impressive, and your partner Don, must be grinning from ear to ear about SGI's
recent acquisition. What a maelstrom that must be. <G>
Thanks as always for your good efforts, I know I speak for the majority when I
say we're all looking forward to 3DS R5, running on a "real" OS! Its going to
allow for capabilities that have until recently been only a distant dream.
Regards,
John
And NT is not just for PC's anymore. (Sounds kinda like an OJ commercial, but
I've had more than enough of anything that sounds even remotely like everyone's
favorite ex-football star). One of the foundations of the NT operating system
is that anything that is developed for NT will run on any NT platform without
developer modification. Which means that you can run 3DS NT on your favorite
PC as well as the new series of DEC Alphas, and who knows what else in the
future.
I'm excited!
Aaron
>> One of the foundations of the NT operating system is that anything that is
developed for NT will run on any NT platform without developer modification. <<
That's a fact Jack, Don't need to be coy Roy, Jus get yo' self NT!
John
Aaron,
>> One of the foundations of the NT operating system is that anything that is
developed for NT will run on any NT platform without developer modification.
Are you *sure* about this? I've heard they have to be at least recompiled to
run under different chip architectures.
John
>> Are you sure about this. <<
Read the complexities of the previous thread on recompiling. Click of a button.
John
<<One of the foundations of the NT operating system is that anything that is
developed for NT will run on any NT platform without developer modification.>>
… though a recompilation of the program for each platform/architecture is
necessary. So we should see 3DS for Intel, MIPS, Alpha etc. Chuck them all on a
CD and the smorgasbord is open for the discerning connoisseurs.
David "Trading in the mini for rocket fuel" Gould
Gary:
Thanks for sharing the story, I love to hear the background of how this program
evolved. It is amusing to me to hear the timing of the behind the scenes
dealings as it shows that you have had to endure years of bozos like me begging
for such an OS switch. (Sorry :-{ )
Bob
Yeah, well… we're _all_ bozos on this bus.
– G
Gary
>> we're _all_ bozos on this bus.
…you're either on the bus off the bus. If you're on the bus and you get left
behind, then you'll find it again. If you're off the bus in the first place,
then it won't make a damn.
-Tom Wolfe – Electric Kool-aid Acid Test
Just had to look it up. I like Ken Kesey. JB
>>If you're off the bus in the first place, then it won't make a damn.
How true…
– G
Gary: <we're _all_bozos on this bus> lol
>> Yeah, well… we're _all_ bozos on this bus.
The future is now… go on… squeeze the wheeze…
ah, Clem
Actually, I'm a boza!:)
Connie
– G,
<<we're _all_ bozos on this bus.>>
Its dejavu all over again … *<:*D
Didja ever find the pliers? …B.
Thanks Gary.
Contrary to all the flak you're getting here, everyone I've talked to seems
to think the move to NT is a REALLY good idea.
– Michael J Sheldon "Falcon", msheldon@crl.com
– When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is
not hereditary. Thomas Paine, Common Sense [1776]
Re:Don B./NT << I just thought that I'd give you another piece of information
about the Yost Group's history regarding this decision…. >>
Thanks for sharing that information. I have been curious about Don for some
time. Having more experience using m/t OS's than DOS/Windows, I have very
recently been fooling around with NT, and must say I like it. On a strictly
personal level, I don't care for the way Microsoft does business. But, I think
NT will make a very good marriage with 3DS, and 3DS customers should not
confuse NT with some sort of souped-up Windows. It does really seem to have
been created by some company other than MS. As much as I dislike MS's policies,
practices & products….NT *is* impressive wrt UNIX flavors and other OS's I've
used. And it seems to be easier on the *user* in many ways as well. So, if it's
better for the developer too, I'm sure 3DS/NT will provide a quantum leap in
capabilities. Especially if some 3D hardware assistance gets thrown into the
soup, somewhere down the road. Best of luck with it.
BILL
Thanks, Bill.
– G
Windows NT was developed by the same people that made VMS for the VAX machines.
And if you've ever wondered where in the world they got that NT from, they
actually just disguised their old name. Take VMS and add one to each letter
and you get WNT — Windows NT.
Aaron
Aaron:
>> Take VMS and add one to each letter and you get WNT — Windows NT.
Sounds like the computer in 2001! HAL -> IBM!
Greg Pyros
<< Take VMS and add one to each letter and you get WNT — Windows NT.>>
HAL +1 = —> IBM
VMS +1 = —> WNT
2001, HERE WE COME!!!!!
… Ooooohhhh, I'm gettin' dizzy …
3DS +1 = —> 4ET…. R5 phone home… <g>
>>4ET…. R5 phone home… <g><<
Gus, yer a riot! <g>
-Alan
Ah… uhm?… oh I see, ET, phone, home… hmmmm… NO!
🙂
Oh, I guess that Jonas forgot to said that you are porting your
Amazing Jokes Generator IPAS to NT <g>
LOL at that one!
<< Take VMS and add one to each letter and you get WNT — Windows NT. >>
Hmmm, I'm not sure if you're just putting me on or not <g>, but that's a very
interesting story either way. So that would be DEC developers then ? I'd never
heard that before. I guess I wasn't deceiving myself in thinking that it seemed
to be a superior product, after all.
BILL
David Cutler conceptualized NT still while working for DEC. It is what VMS
should always have been. David brought with him several folks from DEC and the
NT development process was the most serious (and stressful at that) ever taken
by Microsoft. Some folks (people I know) flipped beyond repair.
<<Some folks (people I know) flipped beyond repair.>>
We should all get combat pay <g>
Aaron
<< combat pay.. >>
<bg> ..
Gary,
thanks for sharing that story Gary. It inspires confidence. However, there are
always going to be naysayers and DOS die-hards but for serious production work
the choice is plain and clear – NT makes sense. You won't be able to please
everybody, but if you can please the majority and even win a bunch of new
converts with your new direction, then you're doing the right and best thing.
Furthermore, the only place I've encountered naysayers has been a couple here
on the forum, everyone else I've talked to in the business is very, VERY,
excited about r5 for NT.
Rock on,
Martin
i agree now, definatly, hey martin what you been up to! i have been seeing
quite a bit of character animation in some games i been buying for my kids ,
its got you touch all over them
so whats you been doing?
Sherwood,
>> hey martin what you been up to! <<
you know, the usual stuff … drugs, prostitution, racketeering, money
laundering ….. oops, that's Microsoft, not me, sorry <G>. No, actually
Microsoft is really, really nice and wouldn't do anything illegal <G>.
Last year and the first part of this year, I worked at a couple of game
companies, freelanced some corporate video stuff, did a bit of book work, and
did some screen graphics for a movie. Tomorrow I start work at a well-known LA
production company and won't be able to freelance anymore, at least not in
direct competition. Other than that it's been really quiet. How about you?
>> i have been seeing quite a bit of character animation in some games i been
buying for my kids , its got you touch all over them <<
probably not my work, since the 2 games I did character animation for aren't
out yet. What platform are they on and what's the game?
When it comes right down to it, the only person I've ever tried to please has
been myself. The fact that I've got similar taste in 3D software to a lot of
other folks just happened to be danged coincidence.
– G
Gary,
>> the only person I've ever tried to please has been myself. The fact that
I've got similar taste in 3D software to a lot of other folks just happened to
be danged coincidence. <<
that kind of surprises me, but if your tastes marry with the majority of the 3d
mutants out there then it is a great coincidence 🙂
..And a pretty good danged coincidence it was…
-Alan
I don't even know how you can spend your time talking to deaf people.
In this case, writing for blind people.
In any case, nice to hear the story and nice to know that my
premonitions were true from the beginning (I am from Spain, you know,
so I am kind of a witch 🙂
Best wishes, (althought I am sure you won't need more wishes for r5 🙂
ana /krazy images
>>NT
Ah, the gears and the wheels. Thanks!
JKJ
PS: and on the 3D paint – yes, yes, yes, yes!
Thanks, Gary! It still amazes me that you are so willing to spend so much of
your time here, enriching our lives. I feel confident that this major decision
is in our best interests. Your orientation is always positive, and it's
catching!
Regards, Connie
Best interests, eh? If I had the time to tell you about all the marriages
that've been ruined by the 3DS mutation…
Mutant interests is more like it.
Must have something to do with those radiation experiments in the '50s…
– G
>> This was a very big decision for us, and we went into it carefully and
>> deliberately.
Most of us have learned that this seems to be the rule rather than the
exception with the Yost Group. Just the same, it is great to hear such strong
confirmation from you. It must be amusing (if not frustrating some times) to
see the wild speculation and know that you are more in tune with the computer
world than you are generally given credit for…
It just provides a good opportunity for me to work on my (already huge) ego.
– <G>
>> …ego.
🙂
Once you've got the Win32 stuff running (probably already do), how about
letting someone like me port it to OS/2 to show you it can be done – it
wouldn't even take a full partnership in Yost group to do it! 🙂 Then you'd
have OS/2 Intel and PowerPC in one shot. That'd more than double your audience.
— Doug Azzarito
I don't know how many times I've got to tell you… Bob Bennett at Autodesk is
the primary contact to talk to about OS platform decisions. You can reach him
via email at bobb@autodesk.com.
– G
Thank you.
I'm sure the story will inspire confidence in some of (never "all of" but
that's their prob.) the "DOS or DIE" crowd. I, for one, am thrilled by the
prospect. I don't yet have NT, but that is soon going to change.
While you're working on Rel. 5, why don't you consider taking full advantage of
the GUI environment by creating a "visual IPAS" dev. kit.
Will IPAS development be able to be done with a more standard C,C++ effort, as
opposed to the way it's now done? No more phar-lap, no more phar-lap, no
more…
Best of luck
-David
That's my mantra… no more phar lap no more phar lap no more phar lap etc
Be assured that the move to NT is our opportunity to do things with some real
class. (Heck, we've got to make up for our Phar Lap sins somehow!)
– G
>>make up for our Phar Lap sins somehow!
200 Hail Marys and… NT should do it!
-David
<<Be assured that the move to NT is our opportunity to do things with some real
class.>>
C++ classes I hope <g>
David "Snap, Crackle, Pop" Gould
Uh, Gary, I get the distinct impression you didn't *enjoy* working with
PharLap…<G>
Later,
-Jeff <Windows stinks….NT is roses>
>>Due to some wild rumors and speculation about our motivations for
moving to NT, I just thought that I'd give you another piece of
information about the Yost Group's history regarding this decision.<<
Do you mind if I use this message along with a blurb I am writing for
our user group about the NT announcement? I think it provides some
interesting background, but I thought I see if you minded first. I
plan to use it intact, no quotes out of context.
Once I leave a msg here, feel free to quote it anywhere you want as
long as it's intact and in context.
>> Once I leave a msg here, feel free to quote it anywhere you want as long as
it's intact and in context. <<
"Once I… leave here, feel… it anywhere you want as long as it's…
in…"
"Once I… msg her…, feel free to… anytime you want…"
"Once I leave… here, …free to [do] it anywhere [we] want as
long as it's intact…"
STOP THE PRESSES!
Very good, Paul. *groan*
– G
Paul;
>> STOP THE PRESSES!
I was bustin up laughing on that piece.
I had no idea one sentence could be misconstrued so many ways.
Dennis
This is a great msg, Gary. Wish I'd have read it sooner. Sounds very
exciting. 3DS's history would make for a good book somewhere on down
the line… Onward into the new millenium.
Wade: <3ds history would make for a good book> I hear the first
edition is coming out in tablet form <(;-|