CompuServe Thread

#What's NeXT?

9 messages in this thread
#5771From: Mike Musick/Ass't SysopJan 21, 1990 11:52 AM
David – Answering some of your specific questions: Yes, the question of getting data on/off the NeXT in a _convenient_ form is still a bit fuzzy. I hear a number of schools of thought on this, but the strongest seem to be 1) "Once quantity production gears-up, single blank optical disks should be available for $15-25 or less." and 2) "A new communications application is about to be released, and, with a high-speed modem, should be fine for most data exchange including remote enabling/distribution of software." My personal approach, since it supposedly has a Mac-compatible SCSI port, will be to attach the SCSI 1.44M floppy which (I think) PLI sells and see if that works in the short term. What the final distribution/exchange solution will be is anybody's guess, really. (Also, he says paranthetically, I'm getting the feeling that NeXT is backing-off of the optical disk a little because of the media expense complicating application distribution as well as the observed I/O performance problems. With SCSI magnetic disks now in the sub-10 ms access time range, the optical disk Steve J. chose can't keep up. In fact, NeXT developers are now _required_ to buy Cubes equipped with the 300MB hard disk instead of retrofitting one at significantly less cost to a disk-less NeXT Node workstation.) Right now, I'm _real_ hazy on how well the Cube is going to network with the rest of the world. As it stands now, it's my understanding that it can be configured through an AppleTalk/Ethertalk gateway to look like an AppleShare file server. An associate (Hi, Dave!) has plans to see if an AppleTalk driver can't be cobbled-up quickly so we can hang the NeXT on our (eventual) coax Mac network as a peer-level workstation. Actually, the NeXT finally emerged as a "real and useful" system (rather than a toy for college professors with deep pockets – and most I know of will have to sell their Volvos to afford one) with the showing of the FrameMaker NeXT publishing software at Seybold last year. The application can best be described [continued in reply]
#5772From: Mike Musick/Ass't SysopJan 21, 1990 11:52 AM
[continued] as a combination of Quark XPress, PageMaker and Ventura, with certain features (and liabilities) of all three. FrameMaker NeXT is a port from other UNIX workstations and it seems to be powerful enough to be a contender now, but the subsequent version – already implemented on the generic UNIX platforms – will have to be ported before it will be a peer with the next version of PageMaker, or Ventura with the extension set. Frankly, I intend to support the NeXT at the service bureau I manage as soon as possible. If I'm not the first, then it's not because we didn't try. To transfer files, the immediate solution will have to be to send the optical disk. Fortunately, it's pretty rugged and should tolerate shipment well. Since the NeXT's Display PostScript controller is Adobe's product, it definitely supports their fonts. Cost effective? Not today, in all honesty. The price will have to drop, say, 20-30% before it will give the new accelerated Macs any reason to sweat, and the application base will have to get much, much larger. But, gee, wasn't the Mac in this position not but 5 years ago? <grin> …mm
#5786From: Dan Brogan <Sysop>Jan 21, 1990 1:10 PM
One small consolation to supporting NeXT at your shop is that, at least for the short term, you know that you have all the fonts. All four of them. <grin>
#5881From: David VereschaginJan 21, 1990 11:33 PM
How hard is it to remove/replace the optical disk in the NeXT? And how expensive is it to have a backup on hand when your other disk is at the SB for output? And how do you back up your optical disk to another optical disk before you send it off? Isn't it rather odd to build a machine without thinking about data transfer in the first place? Sure you can add a SCSI drive (and hope it works), but why should you have to do that? That's always puzzled me. Another quesition: how long will it be before "quantity production gears up"? I would suggest it would have to do with the demand. How fast is that expected to increase? I know I'm not rushing out for an optical drive. My questions about networking were on the speculation that you might have to do that to get data on and off the optical disk, but if the SCSI drive works, that's a much more reasonable solution. It's, unfortunately, going to take more than a 30% drop in price for me to consider a NeXT machine. Somehow, unless Steve Jobs is running _really_ fast, I have a feeling that events may overtake the NeXT and that it doesn't have 5 years to prove itself. It's going to be make or break in the next 2. Is anybody producing type in NeXT format? Adobe? Again, how do you get it into the system? The NeXT ads are touting it as a dtp machine, but where's the flexibility and variety that we are all used to now? The NeXT, while it may be a better platform, has a lot of catching up to do yet. Any thoughts?
#6484From: Mike Musick/Ass't SysopJan 28, 1990 12:16 AM
(Excuse the lapse, David – busy, busy week.) The impression I've gotten is the NeXT has quietly abandoned the idea of using the optical disk as the sole mass-storage device. The idea was initially a good one, but the realities of the sub-par seek times eventually overcame the most optimistic code-tweaking and hardware buffering. So far as copying disk-to-disk, the 8+ Meg of RAM should allow the system to at least move individual files around without a lot of disk-swapping. Only when color comes along for NeXT will disk-swapping become impractical. Maybe I've missed something here, but somehow I'm not too sure it's going to be all that difficult to move Mac or PC PostScript fonts (they're the same, really) over to the NeXT. I may be in for a hard lesson, but I certainly am going to try on an experimental basis to see if it works, and then probably confer with Adobe over distribution/licensing. After all, the NeXT contains Official Adobe Display PostScript, and if it doesn't work, then it's _their_ foot they've shot themselves in. Once there is any hint of market acceptance (FrameMaker may be the catalyst), I gather that other suppliers are poised to release product – again, distribution medium is the main snag. Catching-up is mostly a chicken-or-egg situation, and once started, the ramp-up should be short. …mm
#6491From: Brad Walrod <Sysop>Jan 28, 1990 12:34 AM
I thought I read somewhere that BusinessLand was being set-up to distribute software for the next. Bring in a CD-ROM, buy the program, and copy it from their machines right in the store. <BW>
#6494From: Thom Hartmann <HiResOp>Jan 28, 1990 12:46 AM
Mike, I just got one of those "forehead slaps" as Lamar refers to them… Do you think it's possible that even a small part of the MS/Apple Royal collaboration was an effort to head off NeXT (which is PostScript-based)? –Thom
#6509From: Tom PetacciaJan 28, 1990 9:24 AM
Thom – Hmmmmmmmmmm … could be. -Tom-
#6512From: Dan Brogan <Sysop>Jan 28, 1990 9:36 AM
Mike, Let me know how it comes out. I know one guy who tried the same thing but couldn't get it to work. You'll also need to worry about the bitmaps. Despite Display PostScript, NeXT does rely on bitmaps for small point sizes (a la ATM).