#Compensation
11 messages in this thread
All–
An artist/client/friend of mine isn't comfortable with what his employer is
paying him; his boss tells him that "since your job position is so new and
unique, we don't know just what it's worth yet". Anyway, knowing I have
access to this forum, he's asked me to poke around a bit (and quite
possibly like an idiot, I agreed).
From my perspective as a typographer and service bureau operator, I can
easily see that he's an exceptionally talented designer and electronic
artist. He creates things in AI and FH I can only fream about, and wings
his way through XPress like a professional typesetter. The quality of his
work is consistently high, probably the best *we've* seen in our service
bureau. His motivation and work habits are exceptional.
He works for a middlin'-sized ad agency (annual billing about $5 million)
in the nation's fifth largest market area, is the house Mac guru, maintains
the in-house network (six Macs, one LW and one modem on TOPS), trains the
other artists, and runs bi-weekly in-house user group meetings.
I don't know *exactly* how he's presently being compensated, but I infer
it's in the mid-20's. Since I had similar questions of my own when *my*
raise came up a few months ago, I thought that this would be the place to
as around… can anyone contribute something to give him an idea as to what
he should be looking for (besides another job?)
–Bill
Bill,
A _good_ designer, with solid credentials in _design_, who also knows
how to use Quark, PM, or other DTP programs, can usually pull between $25
and $35 here in Atlanta, depending on his/her speed, experience, etc.
–Thom
Um…$25 – $35K per year (which is only $12.50 – $17.50 per hour)? Or $25 –
$35 per hour? (I usually try to stay out of these discussions because my
views are skewed greatly by living/working in New York City, but I did try
to help get Bill a raise a few months back, even if all I did was talk
about how much Jon Hodges _probably_ made! <grin>)
<BW>
I live in Los Angeles, and I keep getting phone calls asking if I want to
go permanent and give up working from home doing design, layout, coding and
DTP. I just say "no", but ask for the salary anyway — and get a whopping
quote of $20,000 to $25,000. It just doesn't seem right to me….all of
the talent out there going unrecognized.
Valerie, Thom and Brad-Philadelphia at least, are so taken by Apple's implied promise of "cheap
type", that it becomes clear to them that once the _system_ is paid for,
the type and layout and design and art will somehow just crank themselves
out, unassisted.
This sort of situation evolved when typesetting initially made the
transition from hot metal to cold comp; once the equipment became small
enough to wheel into a room, everyone thought "Gee, if it has a keyboard,
we'll just get our secretary to be our typesetter…" Uh-huh.
Maybe I'm the eternal optimist, but possibly the shortage of qualified
people will soon evidence itself as the installed base of agency desktop
systems grows. Maybe not. We'll see…
BTW, Brad, I didn't use your argument when I lobbied for my own raise.
Worked, too!<g>
–Bill
I agree with you 1000%, but unfortunately the jobs keep getting filled at
those salaries…it's disgusting, frustrating and everything else that
matches those two words in a thesaurus.
Just a suggestion:
Decide what you want to make (which apparently is more than 20-25K) and
next time someone asks you to work for them give them a quote instead of
asking what they want to pay. If you have a cogent arguement for what
they'll save and the skill level you offer, you'll probably get offered
what you ask.
I realize you're not necessarily job hunting, but it's a nice ego massage
and stroke to be asked to work for the salary you think you're worth!
Me on salary? Never! 🙂 — I'm too spoiled working from home doing "my
own thing." However, what irritates me is that these low "permanent" job
prices affect consulting rates tremendously. Again, no salary position for
this gal unless it's from a trust fund or some rich CEO who would like to
support me in the manner to which I'd like to become accustom to. <grin>
Sorry, Brad – $25 – $35 K per year. Things are soft here in Atlanta.
Bill –
I don't know what the going rate for traditional designer/production
artists/illustrators in your area is, but since he has additional skills
(DTP) and additional responsibilities (system manager) he SHOULD be making
more than that. Because his tools make him more productive, he should be
more highly paid.
It may seem a drastic move, but the best way to find out what he's worth
would be to shop around and see what other places are willing to pay him
(he doesn't HAVE to take the offers, but it gives him a barginning
position).
FWIW — freelancers here get between $35 (the kind we've been complaining
about) – $75 per hour. I charge $60.
— don
I hate to say it, Bill, but the "magic formula" we discussed many moons ago
applies to designers, too, which puts this category in the $25-30K range.
Your friend should be a bit worth more, however, due to his technical
skills, and I'll be the first to comment that agencies are ABSOLUTELY
NOTORIOUS for undercompensating technical ability.
What we (as in my wife, Robyn, and I) are finding depressing is that with
her 17 years of experience in design and print spec'ing, the only
difference that "knowing the Macintosh" now makes is whether you can get a
job at all. She doesn't yet have the computer skills (soon to be formally
trained, tho – no choice, and no time), and is locked out of job after job
because computer skills are prerequisite.
And having those skills doesn't mean an increase in pay – in fact, there
has been such an emphasis on "knowing the Macintosh" over design skills or
experience that total design novices are landing jobs simply based on
"mousing" ability, consequently depressing the pay scales for the field as
a whole.
This trend revealed itself in a recent hiring bout; I was absolutely amazed
to have great numbers of designers/Mac operators thrilled at the prospect
of making $22-23K (budget constraints) for a position which two years ago
should have been worth $30-35. And, on the other hand, I was appalled at
some of the portfolios – these persons called themselves designers?!?
Sorry for the unhappy news. It's going to be a couple of years before the
curve swings back up.
…mm