#Xenix and Progress
29 messages in this thread
Happy Holidays Everyone!!!!!
I just recieved the best XMas gift I could get this year. A JOB!!! Since
July 1990 I have been without full-time employment, and now I have managed
to convince a company to hire me as their chief programmer for in-house
software development. However, I am primarily a C and C++ programmer for
Messy-Dos and AmigaDos, and this will be work on a network of MS-DOS clones
running Xenix and in a fourth generation language called Progress. My
future employer has already invested two years into this software, so I
will have plenty of code to look at and become aquainted with before he
expects real results from me. He is also aware that I have never worked
with Xenix or Progress, but through a program with Canada Manpower he is
willing to accept me as a programming "trainee". I will not be starting
till the 13th or the 20th of Jan. 1992, so I have some time to read up on
these subjects before I start. Do any of you programming types out there
have any suggestions as to where I should start?? i.e. what books can I
look for that will help me to learn this? I have a little bit of expeirence
with Unix and am told that Xenix is a clone of this. If this is true, will
a Unix book be of any use to me. I am not intimidated by reading, I taught
myself C in about two weeks back in 1985 when the Amiga came out, mainly by
reading "C Primer Plus" and a couple of other books relating to C on the
Amiga. I have been involved with computers since the early 70's when they
didn't have monitors, keyboards, disk-drives of any kind, or even ROM, so
learning something new should be no problem. Any help would be greatly
appreciated. Thanx in advance and again Happy Holidays!!!! ( Guess you can
tell I'm in a good mood huh?)
David McCabe
WHAP!ping from COLD Montreal! :^)
David:
C o n g r a t u l a t i o n s ! and good-luck.
– Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
Progress is a 4GL relational DBMS..
Quite popular, and their are versions of it for most operating system,
except amiga dos… It is also ansi SQL..
–Alan Russell
Congratulations on your newfound work. As for Xenix, I have seen a couple
of books at the local book store on it. I can't vouch for the quality of
them, but it is probably worth a trip down to your store to get a gander…
John A. Toebes, VIII – via Whap!
John,
Thanx!! 🙂 I just went to the best Computer bookstore 8888888here in
Montreal, and they have only one book on Xenix, even tho the have a BIG
sticker in their window saying they are an authorized XCO Xenix dealer!! 🙂
They told me that Xenix is a "clone" of Unix. Is this true, and if so then
can I just get a good book on Unix, of which they have many?
David McCabe
WHAP!ping from COLD Montreal! :^)
Certainly you can attack any Unix book as a foundation. Regardless of
Unix, there is a lot of commonality. However, each version has its own
quirks that have to be learned. As a self taught unix hacker from reading
the Man pages, I really can't make any good suggestions on books, but from
my browsing of Unix books have found that you can find juat about any level
of book that you like (or can stand to read).
John A. Toebes, VIII – via Whap!
David: You might try contacting a Radio Shack computer store (not one of
the local retail type stores). Their early network systems were all Xenix
based, and I'm sure they still have lots of manuals available.
– Whapp!ng from the North Coast Michael
Although the Radio Shack stuff was based upon an earlier version of XENIX
that the current XENIX (besides some of the twists I just mentioned in the
previous messages, the RS XENIX came from MS, and the SCO XENIX still has
some MS footprints in it even if just legally), I wouldn't go seeking that
out as it would be too outdated.
I agree….the Tandy Xenix books would be to outdated to be helpful…there
are a number of good Xenix/Unix tomes out there that would be
helpful but Unix/Xenix is really a hand's on environment. You'll only
really learn by doing…though the books can give you a starting point.
I"ve got about a half dozen good books but they're at my office and I can't
for the life of me think of any of the titles
Haven't used them for a while–<MRW>
Dave: you might see if Radio Shack has any books on Xenix. Their Model-16
(TRS-80 series) was Xenix based. It was probably one of the first machines
to use the 68000 MPU. John – K7KB (via Whap!)
>They told me that XENIX is a "clone" of UNIX. Is this true?
Yes and no. Earlier XENIX's were literally based on UNIX source.
However they both took their own tangents. At one point or another, AT&T
set up trying to standardized UNIX System V. Somewhere is that process,
XENIX came back to being more and more compliant with System V, but not by
being based on the newer UNIX source, but the the XENIX kernel people doing
the compliant coding themselves. So, XENIX is not quite a clone as it was
at one point derived from the real thing, however, it has taken on a life of
it's own including its path at being compliant with System V, hence it's not
quite a clone so to speak. In any event, XENIX 386 and the pre-System V
Release V UNIX 386's are quite close (they do differ though and in some
cases you can be up the creek, but in many you are not).
>System V Release V
Of course I should have said System V Release 4.
A good unix book would be a great help to you with Xenix…Xenix is not
actully a clone…but is based on real Unix. Microsoft licensed the rights
to the Unix source from AT&T and then did their own tweaking, etc…they
are very close and all current Unix systems support Xenix files–<MRW>
I have a Xenix machine I would be willing to sell you cheaply. That way,
you could mess with it before your job started, and also mess with it at
home to become better acquainted with it. Are you interested? Please send
me Email.
Darin
Darin,
I already have a brand new 386sx with 2M ram and a 40M hard-disk. My future
employer has stated he would be willing to buy a copy of Xenix to install
on my machine at home and since my modem on the Amiga is external and the
system at work has a modem, I might even be able to do some work from home.
What kind of memory and hard-disk requirements are there for Xenix on
Ms-Dos 5.0??? Thanx anyway for the offer.
David McCabe
WHAP!ping from COLD Montreal! :^)
Congratulations on the job… I run SCO unix on a NEC clone machine. If it
is anything like XENIX, which I understand to be IBM's version of unix, you
will load it INSTEAD of DOS, not on top of dos. Also, SCO unix is best with
about 8 meg of ram and at least 200 meg of fast hard drive. I believe XENIX
is smaller (i don't know why I believe this…). I'm sure you will want WAY
more than a 40 meg hard drive. Good luck,
Peter Bradley
>XENIX on MS-DOS 5.0
XENIX doesn't run on MS-DOS. You can have both partitioned off seperately
on your disk if you'd like though (and distinctly boot each respectively).
Also, XENIX has the capabillity to run MS-DOS sessions as a XENIX process.
I do not believe the latter includes MS-DOS 5.0 though (somebody correct me
if I am wrong).
Greg,
Thanx for all that info. I am glad that you answered me, because I did want
to get in touch with you anyway about your C++ package. How can I get info
about your Amiga version, and are you planning on continuing your support
for this platform? I have heard that the Amiga version of C++ has a few
bugs and am wondering if you will be staying with us. Again, thanx for the
info and Happy Holidays!!!
David McCabe
WHAP!ping from COLD Montreal! :^)
You don't run Xenix on top of DOS. You could fit the basic system on your
40 meg HD but you would definately not have any room for any DOS
partition. If you you need to load the whole development kit, etc. you
could get by with 80 megs of HD but 100+ megs would be more usefull
If you're running single user four megs of ram would be plenty for now. In
terms of working ffrom home with the modem…that's what Unix/Xenix is all
about…Communications!! It's just beautiful!! I spend most of my time
banging PC networks into submission so I really
appreciate the built in Network and COMM tools in Unix…just wonderfull
stuff, but, not simple to master…but don't be intimidated. Unix
people (a generalization of course) are pretty snobby as a whole, but are
quite willing to help if you don't exaggerate your place in the
Unix pecking order. Come accross with a "I know a lot" among some real
Unix nerds and you'll get torn to pieces…trust me…In my youth I
tried it and quickly learned some humbleness until I would really "walk
that walk adn talk that tha talk" –good luck. Just don't be afraid to ask
for help and you'll be OK–<MRW>
>UNIX people (a generalization of course) are pretty snobby as a whole, but are
>quite willing to help if you don't exaggerate your place in the
>Unix pecking order. Come accross with a "I know a lot" among some real Unix
>nerds and you'll get torn to pieces…trust me…In my youth I
>tried it and quickly learned some humbleness until I would really "walk that
>walk adn talk that tha talk" –good luck. Just don't be afraid to ask for
>help and you'll be OK–<MRW>
I know you said what you said was a generalization, but if I may I disagree.
Yes, there are some who are a real panus', but they are off from the norm,
and furthermore exist outside of the UNIX world too.
I actually despise pecking order myself, nevertheless, in some situations it
is an unfortunate requirement. I agree that asking for help should not
necessarily involve it though.
Mike,
Thanx a lot for that info!! I don't intend to be a "I know a lot" type of
guy. I am actually pretty shy! 🙂 Except when it comes to defending my
choice of Amiga over MS-DOS or Mac, then I can be a real bull!!! 🙂
David McCabe
WHAP!ping from COLD Montreal! :^)
Congratulations on the job, David. I cannot help with the information you
need, but I do wish you the very best on the new job and in everything else
during the new year.
Betty
Betty,
Thanx for that!! I also will be going to McGill at night in their Computer
Science program starting in January as well!! The first course is an
intensive study of Pascal, so I will surely be learning a lot of varios
computer stuff in the next year!!! I am really glad I am a member of CIS
because I can see a real need for all kinds of info in the near future!!!
David McCabe
WHAP!ping from COLD Montreal! :^)
I had Xenix running successfully on a 10 mhz 286 with 4 megs of RAM and an
80 meg HD. If all you want to run on it is Xenix, 40 megs will be plenty.
If you want to do *any* DOS/Windows work, you'll need a bigger HD. Hell, if
you want to run Wing Commander II, you'll need a bigger HD. 🙂
Loyd
Steve,
I have NO intention of runing any games on the clone. I already do some
development on that machine with Turbo C under DOS but no Windows stuff.
The mother board has a SCSI controller on board so I guess I can just add
another (bigger) SCSI hard drive to install Xenix. I hope my employer will
pay for that too!! 🙂 Thanx for the info and Happy Holidays!!!!
David McCabe
WHAP!ping from COLD Montreal! :^)
>>…when they didn't have… or even ROM…. <<
Front Panel Toggle Switches! Yeecchhh!! Sigh!!! Those were the days!
Remeber when it was exciting to get a response from the machine, to see it
print "Hello World"? Now, "It doesn't have 24 bit Color? Yawn…"
I still fire up my old CP/M machine from time to time, and play the old
games written in basic. Brings back good memories, and I appreciate my
Amiga even more. What magic has transpired since then.
Congratulations on your job. (Even if they are starting you out as a
beginner.)
– Well Whap! Me Silly….
Yeah, I remember the good old days of some of those games played on the
early machines. Like the Scott Adams adventures, Taipan, Hamurabi (sp?),
etc. Nothing fancy, just a lot of fun. John – K7KB (via Whap!)
Congrats on the job! This Xenix — is it SCO Xenix, or SCO Unix? Xenix is
(to put it mildly) buggy. I gave up on it after many hours of trying to get
uucp to function correctly. If it's Unix, I hear they did a bit better
job…
Loyd
Congrats.
Most of the UNIX books will be applicable to XENIX (there will be minor
differences though). There are some XENIX specific books…. sigh it's
been a long time… something like Inside XENIX as well as Using XENIX I
think.
Bop on over to UNIXFORUM, but you should get UNIX REVIEW, UNIX WORLD, UNIX
Today! mags as well as some of the Kochan and Wood series of texts and one
of two of the system administration texts even if you are not going to be
the sysadm — Fiedler & Hunter etc).