CompuServe Messages

John: /_______________________From your message________________________\\ Course I don't agree with your blanket statement that it is virtuous to give away that which you care about. __________________________________________________________________ Huh? I didn't make blanket statements, I asked questions. Are you alluding to one of the questions I asked? /_______________________From your message________________________\\ Would it suprise you to know that one can share the same view "I swear by my life and love of it that I will live for the sake of no man and ask no man to live for the sake of mine" and still have an altruism as a value. I bet it would. __________________________________________________________________ Well it would certainly require some new definition of altruism. Even the tenet "Love your neighbor as yourself" does not require altruism. Selfless behavior will certainly contradict the quoted statement I have offered. One does not have to go farther than a Webster's to show that altruism and selfishness are antonyms, regardless of what I say or what Ayn Rand has written. This is not to say that one who does not support altruism cannot do great kind deeds for mankind, but lets not confuse this with the selfless devotion to mankind which is a requirement of altruism (At least according to the New Webster's Dictionary). You can tell me that I have my definition of altruism all wrong if you want and say I don't understand and all the rest but I've been discussing the concepts yet you keep wanting to come back to some semantic argument. Before we even started this discussion we probably should have agreed on the terms as they have gotten in our way and I really tire of semantic battles. You say potato,…<G> /_______________________From your message________________________\\ I have explained it but for some reason you seem to prefer Ann Rand's definition which is false. __________________________________________________________________ Meanwhile, back to the semantic argument… I have not tried to stick to the confines of any word, I have not tried to redefine the word 'altruism'. I have offered some of Rand's thoughts and words on the topic. I have tried to go beyond the single word in favor of discussing the concepts of selfless behavior vs. selfish behavior. My feeble attempts to explain the concepts to which I am opposed (selfless bahavior) has taken a couple of messages, Rand has written several books on the topics. To say that Rand's definition of altruism is false is to ignore all of what she wrote in favor of a quick way out, dismissing the whole debate on YOUR own interpretation of one word. If you believe that Rand was missing the boat on the definition of altruism, I'm interested to hear why? To just say she falsely defines the term is not enough. /_______________________From your message________________________\\ There seems to be more room in your agruments for altruism, but I'm not sure if that's just because you don't want to come out and say you're egocentric or that you really don't understand altruism. __________________________________________________________________ Lets get past this semantic argument, use any term you wish and define it any way you wish. What I believe in is the concept of rational self-interest, the same concept endorsed by Thomas Jefferson upon which he helped to found this country. I believe I have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I have no interest in subjecting anyone to living for my sake and I have no interest in living for the sake of anyone else but myself. Do not make the mistake of equating my epistemology with that of Nietsche or James C. Before I comment on egocentricity I'll let you define the term first as I suspect my Webster's will somehow disagree with yours. <G> /_______________________From your message________________________\\ You can keep hammering away if you want to but I would suggest that you read up on it further. __________________________________________________________________ Ha! I should read MORE books on this subject? That's a good one! Uh, this was meant as a joke, right? Altruism requires SELFLESS behavior. Benevolence, charity, munificence, morality, goodness, humanitarianism, and generosity do not require SELFLESS behavior. I have no interest in acting selflessly. Simple really. <G> Bob