Forum unknown
· Hardware
#SIDECAR
19 messages in this thread
As a peripheral device, like the SideCar, an 80286 would certainly be nicer
than an 8088. I just don't think either of these chips has any place being
built into an Amiga-family computer, I think that's where all of this
started. I personally have exactly 1 application right now that runs on a
PC[lone] and nowhere else that I occasionally need to use, that's a PAL
compiler. The transformer or an 8088 based SideCar would do it just fine
for me, though if I didn't have free access to either of these devices
(working at CBM is occasionally an advantage), I'd probably break down and
write my own PAL compiler before I bought either of the PC emulators. If a
person needed to run more than just a program here and there, buying one of
these would make more sense.
If you really need lots of PC[lone] based software that runs at 16 bit
speeds, it'd probably make more sense to buy an AT Clone and sit that next
to the Amiga or something. As for personal programming or anything like
that, I wouldn't even consider trying to write any code on a PC[lone] at
least until thay (they) have an 80386 based machine with a real operating
system. In other words, something that's at least as sophisticated as the
Amiga I'm typing on right now, not some overgrown CP/M machine. The sheer
amount of PC-DOS software makes a PC peripheral a useful item, and of
course a machine based on the 80286 is going to be more useful for alot of
folks than is an 8088 based machine. An 80286 SideCar device doesn't make
too much sense now, though, I think. The extra expense added to an already
expensive device that only a small fraction of the Amiga community really
needs probably won't be easy to justify. -Dave
You're right that few people need the full ability of either an 8088 or
80286 or 80386 sidecar. What we do need is something that lets us run IBM
software such as home banking not avaiable in Amiga form. The ideal item
here is transformer. The problem is that as released, it has too many
problems. CBM, your employer, released an unfinished product to keep
people quiet until Sidecar came out, but now that Sidecar is out and few
people want it (for all the reasons we've been laying out), we still need a
usable transformer.
If CBM wants to cooperate, at least they could allow 1.2 of transformer to
be released, possibly thru forums to keep costs way down. You've had 1.2
since June, but the bosses apparently don't want us to have it. Or, if you
want to do it right, pay Simile to give you the transformer that CBM told
the public 14 months ago we were to get – some speed, full communications,
straight color and maybe more, and of course the graphics.
Try to get your bosses to honor what they told us when we were the first
buyers of Amiga – I bought mine in October, 1985 – at least partially
because of 'accelarator' and transformer that was supposed to give us pc
speed and full compatibility. I know CBM has no reason to build
accelarator, except for AI possibilites, but you could pay to provide us
usable emulation at a decent price. Even if transformer with the works
would cost you a bundle, selling , yes selling it to us for $100 with 20000
copies might cover costs and create a great deal of good will. What do
you think? Ron Troy
Well, actually I work for Commodore Technology, I assume that Commodore
Amiga was responsible for the dealings with Simile. But in any case, all
I've heard about that deal was that, in the initial dealings with Simile,
Commodore had contracted for a product by a certain date. The Simile
people delivered an unfinished product about six months after the date it
had been first promised.
Based on that, I can understand C-A's reluctance to deal with them any
more, though I'd expect that it would be quite a bit easier than it seems
to let them go out on their own, if that's what they want. I've never seen
any version of the Xformer other than the release version. The reason the
release version doesn't work in 1.2 is that the Simile folks violated a
number of Amiga rules, like hard-coding in machine addresses, etc. which
have changed in the 1.2 version of the OS. I do, however, think that an
IBM emulator in software makes much more sense for the average Amiga user
than a hardware product, at least until the hardware's price can closely
approach that of the software. -Dave
Dave, Simile send cbm a fully 1.2 compatible version in June 1986. I've
seen it working and it's fine both with 1.2 and in taking advantage of
external ram. There have been many disagreements over what the 'amiga
rules' were when the product was first created, but CA apparently decided
to release an unfinished product and didn't even want it finished, because
(even before the machine had come out) they had apparently decided on
Sidecar – it was potentially very profitable, unlike transformer.
They also reneged on 'Accelerator' which CA was to provide to handle the
speed problem, and they told (or so I understand) Simile not to finish the
color and graphics, though I further understand that was only a few months
away. Well now we're stuck with limited software emulation and trouble
causing hardware emulation (blocking the expansion port), so in effect
we've got nothing very usable.
I'm assuming that PCET will never make the market. I still think that if
only for public relations reasons CA should buy a full blown transformer
from Simile and SELL it at a very reasonable price – not to make money,
just recover the costs of buying and distributing it. Ron
After talking to Commodore about the Transformer, they have assured me that
a new release will soon come out that will work on 1.2. When questioned
about any other new features, the reply was that there would be other
enhancements, but were left unspecified. They took my number, and told me
that they would give me a call as soon as it was ready.
John, WHO did you talk to at CBM re: Transformer?
Bri
John, WHO did you talk to at CBM re: Transformer?
Bri
1. it works with 1.2.
2. it works with external ram hooked up. Under 1.1 it simply doesn't break
down, and under 1.2 it uses proper autoconfig ram to allow up to 640k in
pcdos.
3. If you have a comm program that doesn't need certain waits built in, you
can set at-pref to eliminate waits built in – comm will now go somewhat
faster.
4. The at-pref menu has the bullshit (based on the original specs that cbm
abandoned) removed.
5. More reliable. By the way, speedy?.com shouldn't do any good under
recent versions of pcdos – it only helps the antiquated version of dos.
Ron
I just examined SPEEDY3.COM under DEBUG, and it definitely does things
under recent versions of DOS. It apparently patches DOS to bypass a lot of
garbage and go directly to the DOS-level CON: device driver during output.
It's difficult to judge how much effect this will have on performance, but
it will definitely help… – Bela
I just examined SPEEDY3.COM under DEBUG, and it definitely does things
under recent versions of DOS. It apparently patches DOS to bypass a lot of
garbage and go directly to the DOS-level CON: device driver during output.
It's difficult to judge how much effect this will have on performance, but
it will definitely help… – Bela
1. it works with 1.2.
2. it works with external ram hooked up. Under 1.1 it simply doesn't break
down, and under 1.2 it uses proper autoconfig ram to allow up to 640k in
pcdos.
3. If you have a comm program that doesn't need certain waits built in, you
can set at-pref to eliminate waits built in – comm will now go somewhat
faster.
4. The at-pref menu has the bullshit (based on the original specs that cbm
abandoned) removed.
5. More reliable. By the way, speedy?.com shouldn't do any good under
recent versions of pcdos – it only helps the antiquated version of dos.
Ron
After talking to Commodore about the Transformer, they have assured me that
a new release will soon come out that will work on 1.2. When questioned
about any other new features, the reply was that there would be other
enhancements, but were left unspecified. They took my number, and told me
that they would give me a call as soon as it was ready.
Like I said, anything from Simile is probably only floating around C-A in
Los Gatos, 'cause I haven't seen anything like this in West Chester, and
any time I ask our software folks about it here, they just groan. I'd
really like to see a better Transformer; the current version does
everything I need, except run under 1.2. Oh, well. -Dave
Believe it or not, its supposed to be in qa in West Chester. Mike Bremmer
told me that they did get it. Personnally I know it works – I've had the
pleasure of putting it thru its paces, and it has no, repeat, no trouble
with 1.2. I think they groan because they can't believe what it takes to
do what transformer does – its a very sophisticated product. Get your
company to shake it loose and you'll get to use it too! The one thing that
I really need that it doesn't do is certain bizarre forms of communications
– CBM will probably have to pay for that ability, but it's needed for any
of the home banking products that I'm familiar with to work. It is doable
– it just costs money. Well? Ron
Believe it or not, its supposed to be in qa in West Chester. Mike Bremmer
told me that they did get it. Personnally I know it works – I've had the
pleasure of putting it thru its paces, and it has no, repeat, no trouble
with 1.2. I think they groan because they can't believe what it takes to
do what transformer does – its a very sophisticated product. Get your
company to shake it loose and you'll get to use it too! The one thing that
I really need that it doesn't do is certain bizarre forms of communications
– CBM will probably have to pay for that ability, but it's needed for any
of the home banking products that I'm familiar with to work. It is doable
– it just costs money. Well? Ron
Like I said, anything from Simile is probably only floating around C-A in
Los Gatos, 'cause I haven't seen anything like this in West Chester, and
any time I ask our software folks about it here, they just groan. I'd
really like to see a better Transformer; the current version does
everything I need, except run under 1.2. Oh, well. -Dave
Dave, Simile send cbm a fully 1.2 compatible version in June 1986. I've
seen it working and it's fine both with 1.2 and in taking advantage of
external ram. There have been many disagreements over what the 'amiga
rules' were when the product was first created, but CA apparently decided
to release an unfinished product and didn't even want it finished, because
(even before the machine had come out) they had apparently decided on
Sidecar – it was potentially very profitable, unlike transformer.
They also reneged on 'Accelerator' which CA was to provide to handle the
speed problem, and they told (or so I understand) Simile not to finish the
color and graphics, though I further understand that was only a few months
away. Well now we're stuck with limited software emulation and trouble
causing hardware emulation (blocking the expansion port), so in effect
we've got nothing very usable.
I'm assuming that PCET will never make the market. I still think that if
only for public relations reasons CA should buy a full blown transformer
from Simile and SELL it at a very reasonable price – not to make money,
just recover the costs of buying and distributing it. Ron
Well, actually I work for Commodore Technology, I assume that Commodore
Amiga was responsible for the dealings with Simile. But in any case, all
I've heard about that deal was that, in the initial dealings with Simile,
Commodore had contracted for a product by a certain date. The Simile
people delivered an unfinished product about six months after the date it
had been first promised.
Based on that, I can understand C-A's reluctance to deal with them any
more, though I'd expect that it would be quite a bit easier than it seems
to let them go out on their own, if that's what they want. I've never seen
any version of the Xformer other than the release version. The reason the
release version doesn't work in 1.2 is that the Simile folks violated a
number of Amiga rules, like hard-coding in machine addresses, etc. which
have changed in the 1.2 version of the OS. I do, however, think that an
IBM emulator in software makes much more sense for the average Amiga user
than a hardware product, at least until the hardware's price can closely
approach that of the software. -Dave
You're right that few people need the full ability of either an 8088 or
80286 or 80386 sidecar. What we do need is something that lets us run IBM
software such as home banking not avaiable in Amiga form. The ideal item
here is transformer. The problem is that as released, it has too many
problems. CBM, your employer, released an unfinished product to keep
people quiet until Sidecar came out, but now that Sidecar is out and few
people want it (for all the reasons we've been laying out), we still need a
usable transformer.
If CBM wants to cooperate, at least they could allow 1.2 of transformer to
be released, possibly thru forums to keep costs way down. You've had 1.2
since June, but the bosses apparently don't want us to have it. Or, if you
want to do it right, pay Simile to give you the transformer that CBM told
the public 14 months ago we were to get – some speed, full communications,
straight color and maybe more, and of course the graphics.
Try to get your bosses to honor what they told us when we were the first
buyers of Amiga – I bought mine in October, 1985 – at least partially
because of 'accelarator' and transformer that was supposed to give us pc
speed and full compatibility. I know CBM has no reason to build
accelarator, except for AI possibilites, but you could pay to provide us
usable emulation at a decent price. Even if transformer with the works
would cost you a bundle, selling , yes selling it to us for $100 with 20000
copies might cover costs and create a great deal of good will. What do
you think? Ron Troy