#Display Question
28 messages in this thread
I am a psychotherapist and am designing several different research
projects in which I will be collecting physiological measures from
human subjects while displaying graphic images to them (digitized
photographs mostly). I have the data acquisition part working using
an AREXX program to collect and sample the physiological measures
through the serial port. I am now trying to figure out a way to
synchronize and display the graphic images on one monitor while being
able to watch the AREXX data acquisition on another monitor. I would
prefer to do this with one computer, if there is hardware available
to do so. If necessary, I could work with two computers, but would
need to be able to control the computer that does graphical display
from the computer that does data acquisition.
Does anyone know of a way to output two different displays to two
monitors from the same computer? If not, what would it take (besides
a serial expansion) to drive a second computer to display graphics
(controlled and synchronized by the first computer)?
I own an Amiga 2000 and several 500's, but could obtain whatever hardware
is necessary.
– via Whap!
Michael,
Why couldn't you put the picture in one window, and the data being
acquired in another window? You could scale the pictures to one fourth of
the screen, or whatever, and then just have a window displaying the data.
Take advantage of the Amiga's multitasking when planning a project
like this. It makes it much less expensive and less time consuming.
If you need help, please feel free to ask me.
Darin, SPC Superbase Technical Support
Darin,
Thanks for your reply. I may have not been real clear in my original
message. I am needing to have a monitor with the computer which displays
data acquisition (and a window with the pictures), but another monitor
which displays only the picture (I don't want the experimental subject to
be watching the data acquisition). I am not familiar enough with Amiga
hardware to know if or how two monitors might do such a thing.
Regards
Michael S.
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Hmmm. Where is the data being acquired coming from? The serial or parallel
ports? A joystick port? A card? If the parallel port is free, then use a
printer to output the data. If the serial port is free, use a terminal, a
computer with terminal emulation software, or a serial printer. If these
options won't work, then it looks like a second computer is needed,
probably hooked up via the serial port. Or, just acquire the data straight
to disk, without displaying (if this works for your application). If you
need more ideas, feel free to ask. I'm full of 'em! 🙂
Darin Arrick
Darin, The data is coming from the serial port. I will be displaying
approximately 45 digitized photographs to human experimental subjects while
simultaneously collecting physiological measures. My AREXX script will be
sampling the data collected and saving it to disk, but I will need to be
able to monitor the data coming in in order to make decisions regarding
which order to present the photographs. The human subjects (and graphic
display montior) will be in a booth physically isolated from the computer
and operator. If I use two computers I guess I would need a serial
expansion so that one could control the other computer and the other
acquire data. That's why I'm very interested in the framebuffer boards
(Firecracker 24, etc.) because, if I understand correctly, I could get them
to output the photographs while the Amiga outputs it's regular display. As
this project continues, I'll be needing lots of ideas and will feel free to
ask.
Thanks
Michael Strain
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The framebuffer idea would work. Just make sure you don't just get a 24 bit
display unit, like a DCTV, or a HAM-E. I don't think those have
framebuffers (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). Get a Video Toaster,
Firecracker, GVP IV24, DMI resolver, Commodore A2410, Mimetics, etc. These
should do what you want. Your experiments sound interesting. If the data
isn't proprietary or secret, I would be interested to know the conclusions.
You're on the right track. Keep it up.
Darin
Could you use a framebuffer board like the Firecracker 24 to display the
images? That way, the normal Amiga display could be used for the operator.
-Jim
Jim
Thanks for your reply. I am not very familiar with the Firecracker 24 (but
am hunting down some magazine reviews I remember seeing). Have you worked
with it? It sounds, from what you're saying, like it might be just what I
need. Thanks again
Michael S.
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Michael, The Firecracker 24 is basically a Zorro II card that fits in an
Amiga 2000 or 3000 expansion slot. It can display up to 1024 x 480 (or
there abouts) in 24 bit color. You can genlock the Amiga's regular display
over it, or run it on it's own monitor. We've got one in the demo 3000 at
the store, it works great. It's relatively inexpensive (as such things go!)
at about $850. Impulse supplies a paint program & image loaders. The
Firecracker is a good choice if all you need to do is display images.
The IV24 board from GVP is far more elaborate & about 3 times as
expensive. It's also a digitizer, picture-on-screen superimposer, and
display de-interlacer. The board comes with it's own paint program,
presentation, and 3d software. We don't have one on display now, but I have
installed one. In a 3000 it goes in the video slot and the zorro slot
that's in line with it. For a 2000, it is installed in a regular slot with
a cable connecting it to the video slot. Looks good also!
-Jim
Jim, Am I understanding correctly that these boards have a monitor output
independent of the Amiga's monitor output? I assume they are software
driven–do either or both have AREXX ports? Will they run any type of
graphic (IFF, HAM, etc) or only certain kinds? The more I'm finding out
the more it seems one of these will be my solution. Thanks a lot for your
explanation.
Michael S.
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Michael, Yes, the boards have an independent monitor output. The
Firecracker's is RGB at NTSC scan rates. A 1084 type monitor works fine. If
you encode it, a color composite monitor works reasonably well. I've used
Commodore's 520 encoder/RF modulator sucessfully with the FC. However, the
520 doesn't have screws to hold it to the card's video port. It's a little
unstable, mechanically speaking. The IV24 has composite, RGB, and S-VHS
outputs. I'll have to look at the manual tomorrow to answer the AREXX
question. They both come with utilities to load and display iff pictures
from a CLI command. I believe AREXX can handle that. I've got the
Firecracker's display program installed in the directory utility we use on
the 3000. I'll give it some sample pictures and see what happens.
Jim
Jim, From your explanation I'm sure one of these boards will work great for
my application. And you're right, if they operate from CLI commands those
can be invoked from AREXX. I'm very anxious to get to my dealer and check
these out more thoroughly–unfortunately I'm leaving for Mexico City
Tuesday and will probably have to hold my excitement until I return next
week! Thanks a lot for the help and information.
Michael S.
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Michael, Glad to help… Anyway, I tried the CLI load command on the
Firecracker today. It will only load 24-bit images. The paint program will
load regular Amiga-mode iff pictures. That makes it a bit more difficult.
You'd have to convert the images to 24-bit, which would probably double the
file size. I don't have access to the IV-24 any more, so I don't know how
it's CLI loader works. Good luck with the project…
Thanks, Jim. Will let you know how it progresses.
Michael S.
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Michael,
One of your replies was a good suggestion (and one I was going to make) –
use a seperate graphics card such as Impulse's FC-24 or GVP's IV-24 card to
show the image your subject is to look at and you can look at the Amiga's
regular output.
Another option, since you have some A500s available, is get a copy of DNET
fromt he libraries. This would allow you to connect two Amiga's together
using either the serial port or parallel port (parallel port is called PNET
or something like that). You could then use your 2000 to collect the data,
etc, and the ARexx program could send commands to an A500 to tell it what
picture to display.
73, Kelly
Kelly
Thanks for your suggestion. The graphics cards look most promising as I am
probably going to buy another Amiga (the ones I have are in constant use
administering my business and psychological testing!). I also may need to
have several of these dual display units at some point and the graphics
cards seem a more straightforward and elegant way to go. Of the two cards
mentioned, would either work equally well for my application? I appreciate
your help.
Michael S.
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Michael,
You already have much better answers describing the FC-24 and IV-24 than I
can give you. There should be some people around here who can answer about
ARexx capabilities with supplied software.
There is one board to stay clear of – Mimetics FrameBuffer. It is low cost
($750), does not have ARexx, and is very slow at loading or saving images
that are not in the boards own raw format. Output and input are NTSC.
If you only want to display images, FC-24 is probably your best bet. It
has RGB output, SVHS output, and NTSC.
73, Kelly
Kelly:
One correction the FC24 only has RGB output unless an encoder is hooked up
to it. So your description of the FC24 is only true if it's hooked to a
Digifex encoder, and then it'll need some modifications before it'll work
properly.
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
Okay, Mike. I would have sworn the FC-24 had composite and seperate comp
video out. Must have got the wires crossed between the ears on that one!
(Who wants composite anyway, unless they want to broadcast or record the
image)
Heck, couldn't even send the message to the right person – sent it to
myself instead of Michael!
73, Kelly
Mike,
Do you know what modifications are needed on the Digifex encoder to work
with the Firecracker? There are a couple of local people here who could use
that info…
-Jim
Jim:
I don't really know. The 'other' Mike at Impulse made the modification for
me (mine was the second one he'd done for a customer), and they didn't
charge for it, although I don't know if they'll still do the mod for free
or not.
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
That's strange. One of the local Firecracker owners called Impulse about
that same encoder & was told it wouldn't work at all. Guess I'll have to
break out the 'scope and take a look.
Michael,
You might want to check out ROBBS. You should be able to easily connect
two Amigas via the serial port with your ARexx programs, and pass
synchronization and response info between the two. You would not require
the display module, only the serial module.
-larry
Larry Thanks for your reply. What is ROBBS? I looked it up in the AC's
Guide and either it must be shareware or an acronym I don't know!
Michael S.
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Michael,
ROBBS stands for Rexx Object Building Block System. The basic idea of it
is that small, limited purpose modules may be 'hoooked up' together using
ARexx. The only two modules available so far (the idea never did catch on),
are SerMod and DispMod, a serial port and diplay module, respectively.
With the serial module, you can send and receive data, watch for
occurrences of pattern strings (up to 10 at a time), set serial port
paramaters, 'hook up' other ROBBS modules directly, and so on.
In your case, you could use two Amigas, one displaying the images and
accepting responses, and the other showing you the results. They would be
hooked together via serial port, and the ARexx programs in the image
displayer would accept data, and send it to the serial port. The second
Amiga would accept the data, and it would be looked at by the Arexx program
running the data aqcuisition program. If need be, data could be sent in
both directions.
SerMod may be found in the ARexx LIB in AmigaTech.
-larry
Larry, Thanks for the information on ROBBS. I've found it and plan to
download it when I get back from Mexico next week. The serial module looks
interesting not only as a way of using two Amigas for my project, but maybe
of upgrading my data acquisition program.
Michael S.
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Michael,
I think it will do a lot for you. if you use it, please keep me posted on
how it goes, and don't hesitate to ask questions about its use.
-larry
Larry, I'm going to download ROBBS tonight and will keep you posted on my
progress. I appreciate your offer of help.
Michael S.
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