#VCR's for Anims
20 messages in this thread
I am considering purchasing a VCR onto which I can record my animations
on. I found some that allow single frame recording that go for about $700
Canadian. I'm currently looking at the Mitsubishi U55 and a Sony 686 (or
something like that). Can anybody tell me if these machines are good
enough to do decent recordings. Also, will I need other equipment?
Thanks..
Randy.
Randy, I *seriously* doubt that you're going to find any system that allows
'single-framing' your animations for anyplace within screaming distance of
$700 Canadian….
I have the Mitsubishi U80, and it is not capable of it. It can do clean
EDITS, but not single framing. The JVC 10000 will get you 3-6 frame
accuracy on a frame by frame basis, still not good enough for single frame
recording, and it's around $1500. My checking indicates that you need to
be in the 4-6000 range for true 'single-frame' recording these days.
Hopefully this will drop as more features become available on prosumer type
decks.
'Single frame' recording implies that you record each frame individually.
Then you move the VCR to the next frame, and record that, etc. Are you
sure you're not confusing this with 'frame accurate' search? My U80, for
instance, is able to jog shuttle to any individual frame, at which point I
can make a clean edit to new material. This means I can splice together
several shorter anims (real time, playing on the Amiga) into a longer work,
with no noticable breaks. But I still cannot 'single frame' my 24bit
images into an anim, because the U80 is not capable of it.
I would add that the U80 (and many other good VCR's) are quite capable of
spicing together shorter anims into longer works very nicely. Just make
sure that the VCR has a good flying erase/insert edit capability, and the
ability to jog-shuttle or otherwise pause at your edit point. Hope this
helps.
If you have found a $700 single frame recorder, I want to know! 🙂
–jp–seattle–
I thought that would be the way it goes. $700 seemed just to good! I do
know that these VCR's have a flying erase head. Although I don't really
know what they do exactly. Oh well, looks like I'll just go and buy a
'normal' VCR then. To bad though. I really wanted to do some 24 bit
anims..
Thanks very muchly for your info.
Randy.
if you are gonna splice anims together get a VTR with Flying Erase heads so
ya can do nice seemless edit's s
Well, I've found several that have Flying erase heads, but the machine
retails for only about $700. Would these machines be suitable?
Randy.
$700 was the cheapest ya could find a VTR with flying erase heads for? Is
it a SVHS at least? For editing try to get a VTR with a Hard Wired Jack for
editing instead of relying on Infrared Remote Control type editors I use a
Sony EV C3 8 mm myself with their Control L ports
Peter, getting an editing VCR with hard-wired jacks is a good idea, but
what are you using to control the VCR with?
The editing jacks (as I understand them) allow one VCR to control another,
or a camcorder to control a VCR, etc…. so that one can toggle on record
on the other for easier editing. I know that you can use other remote
controls with the jacks too, but how?
Answering myself, I know that the MediaPhile stuff can control Sony hard
wired jacks; is that what you use? It's pretty expensive though, (so it
appears) if all you want to do is control the VCR similar to a remote
(compared in cost with an IR controller, anyway)…. I'm curious what
you're using….
–jp–seattle–
I'm using a cable that plugs into the Printer Port and then the Control L
port and use a prg called Cyber VCR(from the Atari ST, haven't converted it
to Amiga yet) I also use a Somy RM 100 Edit controller
Thanks. Yeah, if one can get wire control (as opposed to IR) even if it's
just duplicating the remote, that has gotta be better. I'm going to try to
get the same effect via IR control, but will have to watch things like
line-of-sight, etc… thanks for the info.
–jp–seattle–
Glad to help ya Dude Midgard Graphics, Creators of Quality Animation s
Randy, don't discount the usefullness of these VCR's, even though they will
not do single frame. A good VCR with clean editing capability (ie. flying
erase head, jog shuttle, etc) makes editing together shorter anims a snap.
If you're willing to construct your 1 minute anim out of 10 short six
second segments (because of memory constraints), then it is a lifesaver.
I'd sure like affordable single frame recording too!
–jp–seattle–
Thanks for the info (everybody included), it helped out quite a bit. I'll
have to look into this VCR a bit more before i decide to buy.
I was also wondering if it is possible to manually do the single frame
recording or if you absolutely need a controller. I was reading an Amazing
Amiga (or something like that) and they had a controller for only $500!
That seems like a huge amount of money to me for something that helps you
record. I can't believe that people have some that cost thousands of
dollars. Anyways talk later….
Randy.
That Frame Controller that costs $500 only works with VTR's that have RS
422(not 322) ports, such as the Panasonic AG 7750(costs about $6000) The
reason the Controller is Sooooooo $$$$ is because of the Precision work
neccessary for Single Frame animation.If ya just wanna string short anims
together seemlessly ya might look at that new gizmo from Gold Disk(about
$175) which works with Control L and S ports as well as any VTR that has a
Infrared Remote
John,
Do you mean that you _manually_ jog the U80 to the correct frame? How
do you synchronize the computer (to start the animation) and the U80 when
you are 'adding' a 'piece' to an already existing anim? The 'splicing'
seems a bit more complex than you've stated.
How do I sync the U-80 and the Amiga to splice anims? Good hand
coordination! 🙂 You're correct that the syncronization between the U-80
and the computer is tricky, but I've found it doable.
1. Put the U-80 in record/edit pause (on the frame you want the edit at).
When the U-80 is in the 'insert edit' mode, it takes off pretty quickly
when you tell it to start recording again)
2. Get the anim ready (ie. click to play)
3. Take the U-80 off pause, and about .25 seconds later click to play the
amiga anim. I found that's about the delay between clicking to record and
the machine actually starting to record.
Of course it's a 'feel' or 'rhythm' that I have with it too. I'd say that
I get within 2-10 frames accurate edits pretty consistently. That's
sufficient I find, since I try to plan my edits at transitions in the
anims. I don't find it terribly complex at all, actually.
Oh yeah, you gotta be sure to record the tape (video black) before you do
the 'insert edit' stuff, or else the U-80 won't have anything to sync to
for the editing.
I'm planning on now using the AirLink to automate this process…. ie. have
it automatically put the U-80 into edit mode, and start the program
immediately after I click to start the anim. Should remove the 'human'
error I add to the process. I *hope* to get consistent 0-4 frame edits
that way…. think I can, anyway.
–jp–seattle–
John,
thanks for the information on splicing animations. I have a Sony 676
which I hope to use to do just that. I'll post my first experience here
later this month, when I actually get the VCR and my Supergen gets
repaired.
Blaq! – via Whap!
John,
As an aside, I too am an owner of a Mitsubishi U-80. It's a sturdy
machine, but my model has alot of the button's decals rubbing off. I don't
have this problem with any other of my machinery. Have you found any
problem with your U-80??
-RSL-
I can't say that I've had a problem with my U-80 in over three years now.
Just performs flawlessly for my purposes. No decals rubbing off either,
that I know of. 🙂
The tape handling seems awfully sturdy for a 'consumer' machine, if you ask
me. I know a good studio would beat it up more in a month than I have in
years, but still, no glitches, etc… just do an 'insert edit' and it looks
real clean. Are you using yours for anims at all? How do you find it?
–jp–seattle–
I've never been able to do single frame 24 bit animations because, as good
as my U-80 is, it isn't a single frame recorder. I have done occassional
work using Broadcast Titler I & II, and other simple animations. I wish
that single frame recorders were available at less than professional
prices. All things considered, I'm glad that I bought my U-80, I just have
this idea that someone back in Japan forgot to protect the chasis' decals
with "that last layer of clear paint". Oh well… it's nothing that I
can't live with <g>.
-RSL-
I've never been able to do any 24bit stuff with the U-80 either. 🙁 But I
never expected to do so, cause it's definitely not a single frame recorder.
On the other hand, I have been able to record some 'pseudo-24bit'
animations, by using the FireCracker, and playing regular amiga anims over
the top of it. It makes all the difference in the world when the
background is a full color, high res image…. you can get away with a lot
less in the foreground. Hey, check out Disney the last 50 years! That's
what they've been doing.
–jp–seattle–