#Real Chrome and Gold
31 messages in this thread
Oh no! <g> Now I have to learn German to extract every drop of [free] forum
knowledge! I'll try to refrain from talkin' south'rn. <g>
JKJ
Sorry JKJ and all others which are angry about german's, that I did my
conversation in this case in german.
For me it's not always easy to follow all messages in english. All my uploads
are commented in english and all the other messeges are in english too.
So, when I saw Edwin's question in german, I was happy to see that I am not the
only german in this forum, thats the reason why I answerd in german. For the
next time when I have to say something in german to other germans here in this
forum, I will first write the english version and then the german translation.
O.K ?!
There is no reason to refrain from talkin' south'rn. <– Here is one
of my problems with english. What does FROM TALKIN' SOUTH'RN mean ???
Do you mean: You will not talk from the south anymore or is it only a idiom or
something else ??
and what means the <g> which I always find in the messages here ??
Hope you understand me a little bit
Ingo
Ingo:
A <g> is short for <grin>, meaning that someone was kidding! JKJ was just
giving you a little good natured abuse, perfectly normal for slightly
deranged CIS members!
>> Talkin' South'rn
Means talking with a south-east USA accent and idioms, which are mostly
unintelligable to even the rest of the English speaking world! <g>
Don't worry – if he tries "talkin' South'rn", I'll just start, like, wow,
man, talkin' southern Californian! Surf's up! Hit the beach! Where's the
mall? Valley speak! Knarly, dudes! <big g>
Greg Pyros
Ingo – No one is upset about the German in use here. We actually like it. JKJ
was simply saying that, if he wants the benefit of tips and tricks in the
German messages (and he does) then he must learn to speak German. JKJ is from
one of the states in the US that is generally considered to produce people who
speak with an accent which is called southern. It is one that Germans who have
learned English english or "high-quality" American english find nearly or
completely impossible to understand. Some southern accents are so "thick" that
other Americans can't understand them! My wife, from a place somewhat north of
Chicago went to Texas (south) a few years ago and ordered some bread in a
bakery. The woman behind the counter had to call someone else from the back of
the store to translate! She could not understand my wife's northern accent. So,
don't waste connect time uploading multi-lingual messages. Make us learn
German!
David Taffet <g> = <grin>
Hallo David, Greg, Carl, JKJ and all the others,
thanks for your encourage messages.
The same is here in germany. It's absolutly impossible to understand a Bavarian
when he speaks his slang, and the same in the other direction. (it's in the
south of germany, and sometimes I believe for the rest of the world it's all of
germany because all the people I met who never been in germany know Munich and
the art of life there -Oktoberfest…- , but not much generally about germany)
You want me to learn you guys german ! o.k.
Lesson number one <G>:
Forget all graphiccards you ever seen. One of the "best" graphiccards for your
PC is the SPEA Fire Board from germany. It's an high end board and I have heart
that it's aviabale now in the USA.
Tecnical features:
– 2 MB VRAM, possible to switch very fast between two 24-bit planes
– 33 MHz i860 64 Bit RISC CPU with 8-16 MB CPU-RAM on board
– a lot of video modes, PAL/NTSC support, Genlock(optional)
– true color up to 800×600 in 3DS and Windows,
– 256 colors or hardware_true_color_emulation up to 1280×1024/70Hz
– hardware_antialiasing for lines
– fast animation previewer for 3DS
– 3D-graphics programers Interface
– ultra fast RCPADI for all programparts of 3DS up to 1280×1024/8
– driver for Animator Pro 1.0 & 1.3(max. 1280×1024, real 256 grays!!),
AutoCAD 11-12 (with realtime! 3D previewer directly in AutoCAD)
– the Windows 3.1 driver is the fastest I ever seen.
– exellent support
– high quality video(monitor) signal
– and more ….
A renderer for the i860 isn't available at this time (I hope in the
middle of 1993), but an Animation Previewer, that means you can
render a preview of your animation on the i860 of the SPEA FireBoard.
The Animation Previewer supports the following features of 3DS:
– all geometries an animations
– ambient, diffuse and specular colors of materials (no mappings !!)
– shining of materials
– atmosphere
– ambient, omni and spots (no shadows !!)
– wire, flat, gouraud and phong shading (anti-aliasing only for wire)
– it's possible to record the preview as a flic in 256 color mode
– rendering time for BIRDWALK in Gouraud: 2-5 frames per second
(it takes more time to pack the image to a flic as the rendering)
– also wireframe hiddenline rendering (not a feature of 3DS)
I think, these must be reasons to learn german, isn't it ??
Bis demnaechst Ingo
Ingo – I have heard of this SPEA board. It is available here. What rendering
speed do you see in BIRDWALK done with Phong? Can you get 30 frames per second
playback out of the thing? If so, on what computer, with what disk drive, etc.?
David Taffet
{Thanks for the 1st lesson < big G>}
>> What rendering speed do you see in BIRDWALK done with Phong?
It depends on the selected video mode. Gouraud and Flat have nearly the same
rendering speed in every mode. Phong takes much more because the i860 has
hardware Gouraudshading but not all what you need is for phong is implementated
in the i860 hardware. so for 640×480 it needs 2-5 seconds per frame, after
CeBIT in april I will upload some benchmarks and features.
>> Can you get 30 frames per second playback out of the thing?
Sure and more, because SPEA have his own FLIC Player, 2-4 times faster
than Aniplay and you can choose NTSC/PAL RGB output, so you only need a RGB to
vidoesignal converter to record it on VCR. You only need enough conventional
RAM for your flic's. SPEA Fire is an ISA board !
It's also possible to play in sync. mode that means…. I will try to explain
it later, at the moment I have not the words to explain it.
With dithered!! 640×480 flics you can get up to 25-30 frames/second.
With unditherd 640×480 flics up to 50 frames/second.
More in april after CeBIT o.k. ??
Ingo
OK, Ingo. Thanks for the info. I guess I'll need to go to a dealer who has a
SPEA and have him SHOW ME 30-50 fps from an ISA board. I got a flyer on the
board a few weeks ago, but, on paper it did not look as awesome as you have
described it. Let us know if they decide to release a local-bus version….
Where are you in Germany? My wife was an exchange student in Giesen (? Did I
spell that right?) south of Frankfurt in '85 and I visited her there for 2
weeks around Christmas. I wished I could have stayed longer, but money did not
permit it.
David T
David:
PMJI, but be careful of the SPEA board. I went to a show here in San Francisco
a few months ago and there was a big booth prominently displaying information
on the SPEA board. Since they had 3DS loaded and running on two computers, I
asked for a demo of the SPEA. I was given all sorts of excuses why it couldn't
be demo'ed at the moment and I was told to come back when Mr. or Mrs. So and So
would be there. I came back four times over three hours and each time I was
told come back when someone else would be there to show to the demo.
The fifth time I returned, I encountered the president of the American company
distributing the SPEA (I think it was the Video Seven company). He also tried
giving me the run-around and when I told him I wasn't interested in hearing
anymore talk about what a great board it was; that I just wanted to see the
thing demonstrated, he finally just said, "No." That's all just, "No."
I have heard other people who have actually tried the board and found that it
does not work. The 3DS drivers don't exist or don't work. I don't know if Ingo
has actually used the board or is just reading the data sheets.
Alec Jason
Hello David,
I stay in Wiesbaden, it is 21 miles from Frankfurt. It is a small nice town.
* Giessen
^^
* *
Wiesbaden Frankfurt
You can believe me,
the SPEAPlayer makes 20-50 fps with 640×480. Sometimes more, it depents on
which kind of flic it is (dithered, pixel+color_change per frame …).
I never get less than 22 fps in 640/480 when playing from RAM.
Look also for the message I sended to Alec Jason.
BTW: You can't spell Giessen right here in CIS, because 'ss' is a letter which
is used only in german speaking countrys, normaly "ss" looks like a lowercase
greek beta [ Greg are you listening ?? 🙂 ].
tschuess bis april <g> Ingo
^^
Ingo,
I just wanted to relate a little of the experience we had trying to
test the SPEA Fire board.
We were supplied a brand new unit at the end of December, 1992, (a few
months ago), direct from Video7, and in six weeks of possession, after
countless phone calls, we were never supplied the rendering engine for 3DS.
They kept promising "next week, next week", but it never happenned, so we
finally sent the board back. We _wanted_ to be able to recommend the board, but
the lack of support here, both technical and no rendering engine, left us with
little alternative but to recommend other solutions for our customers. At the
last local 3DS Users Group meeting, almost 200 people showed up, many to see
the published demo that Video7 was supposed to give of this board, and their
demo guy -never- showed up.
It sounds like they are much more established in Germany, but here,we
can't even get any real answers from them.
John Schmidt (A/E/C Technologies)
John,
Spea Fire isn't a render engine. Today it's a preview engine. Only the
animation previewer is aviable for now. I know that the SPEA'S worked
at an i860 renderer for this board, but not all 3DS features are ready
at this time. I hope I will know more after CeBIT in April where I will see the
SPEA's .
Look also for a new message in section HWare/ADI/… titled:
"SPEA FireBoard for sale"
the last message till april !! Ingo
Ingo – I know about the Ess Tset (this is certainly spelled wrong, too) from my
ancient days in German class when I was in high school. I had forgetten that
Giessen had that character. I also wanted to end my message with "tschuess",
but had NO idea how to spell that. What drivers are you using for your SPEA
board?
David T
No problem david,
Ess Tset sounds very good. I am sure I often makes misstakes in english too,
but we know what we mean.
>>What drivers are you using for your SPEA board?<<
I use the Spea drivers for that board. ADI 4.2 for AutoCAD 12,
ADI 4.1 for 3DS …..
Look also for a new message in section HWare/ADI/… titled:
"SPEA FireBoard for sale"
the last message till april !!
Tschoe (another variant of tchuess) Ingo
Herr Ingo,
Enshuldigung! Aber Ich kann im der SPEA nicht gluaben. Ich habe enie geschlecte
erfahrung mit der verdauferin von SPEA hier in Amerika.
Hast du mit der SPEA genutzen oder komme dein meinung von der SPEA propaganda?
Bitte, lesen sie meine message fur David Taffet.
Alec Jason
(Ach du lieber, es sehr schwierig deutsch "sprechen" von funf-und-swanzig
yahren — aber gans sherze!)
Oh, my god! Just curious….How many languages do you speak, Alec? 🙂
Saludos de Espagna, Ana
Mister<g> Alec,
I don't know the SPEA's in USA. Here in germany I have absolutly no
problem with SPEA, the SPEA people are very friendly and have always an open
ear for everything. They have an exellent hotline and if you need a new driver,
no problem (there was only one little problem with the fonts under 3DS). The
Fire board here in germany is very popular under the
high end board's and I know noone who is unsatifactioned.
Perhaps the produktmanagemet+support is at the begin in USA, I think
VideoSeven will do that because SPEA bought VideoSeven, and that will take
a part of time.
>>The 3DS drivers don't exist or don't work<<
All drivers work great.
I can't believe that the 3DS driver will not work, they work absoluty great!!!
and when I say absolutly I mean absolutly!!
O.K. I am beta-tester for new driver's (and I get NO money for this,
NO propaganda!!), so perhaps they are a little bit friendlier but I don't
believe it because, sometimes I called SPEA for new ideas or info's and the
man/woman don't know me, but they are friendly too.
Now, I am a SPEA Fire user for about half a year and have been tested the board
under 3DS, AutoCAD 11/12 and Windows's 3.1. At my opinion one of the best board
I ever seen.
o.k. this is all for now, now it is CeBIT time. I will be
back again in CIS at the first april.
PS: I never looked into the datasheets <g>. It's very nice to read german from
an american, try more.
Herr Ingo,
Danke fur deine antworten.
Vielleicht meine erfahrung met die SPEA komt von die Anfanger auf die Geschaft.
Bitte, forsetzung zahlen uns die Neuigkelt.
Prosit!
Alec Jason
Look for a new message in section HWare/ADI/… titled:
"SPEA FireBoard for sale"
the last message till april !!
Prosit too (what are you drinking Alec ?)
Ingo
PS: When you talk german to me please only say Ingo, not 'Herr'Ingo
because noone here in CIS say Mister Alec and it is also wrong too.
When you want to say 'Herr' you must use the last name: Herr Neumann,
but thats tooooooooooo serious<g>. Don't worry, I love your german.
Ingo,
Yes, I know that "Herr" is the equivalent of "Mr." I was just trying for some
gemutlicheit.
Herr Alec
I'll be at CEBIT too. Anyone else? Want to setup to meet?
Last year I took over the 3DS booth for a couple of hours. The demonstrators
couldn't answer any questions. They didn't know who I was but I could answer
all the simple questions so they didn't ask!! It was such confusion anyway.
Buck
Buck,
you will find me the most time all CeBIT days in hall (halle) 21, directly by
Autodesk, I will work there. If possible don't come at the weekend, the best is
the first CeBIT day (we have more time to talk). If you want to make a meeting
time please call or better fax me till monday evening.
Tel: +49-(0)611-3081854, I think directly from USA: 049-611-……
Fax: +49-(0)611-379187
hope to see you Ingo
>> and what means the <g> which I always find in the messages here ?? <<
It means "grin." In other words, "Do not take what I have just said seriously,
I am just making a joke. I am grinning as I say it!"
>> Hope you understand me a little bit <<
I find your English easy to understand!
>> …I'll try to refrain from talkin' south'rn… <<
I believe he means that he will not speak (write) in colloquial English
(specifically, the English accent used in the southern USA). He will use hoch
deutsch, not nieder deutsch! <g>
Ingo,
Thank you for your comments. Please don't misunderstand! No one, especially
me, is angry about your conversation in German! Although I do not understand
it, I enjoy trying to read German – I just am afraid I'll miss something
important that might change my life!
Although I understand only English, it is very refreshing to me to see
conversations in other languages. Occasionally, someone will use Spanish or
French, and I always try to see if I can understand even just a few words. It
is exciting to me, and reminds me that we are all part of a much larger world,
and can learn so much from each other. I am thankful for the opportunity
through Compuserve to talk to someone in another country such as Germany (or
California <g>).
If I knew how, I would not hesitate to try to communicate with you in German!
Please continue… and if you have the time to add a little English, maybe some
of us non-German readers could learn a little. I have a lot of respect for you
and others who are able and willing to learn a second language and spend the
considerable effort to communicate. This ASOFT forum is so valuable and so
much fun that I would try to learn German immediately if suddenly all messages
were in German!
I appreciate your comment: "it's not always easy to follow all messages in
English." Please don't hesitate to ask for a better explanation if a message
is not clear. Many times, people use short cuts and phrases which are
difficult to understand, even in English! If you have any question, just ask,
and I promise you will get a quick re-wording.
Also, many comments are light hearted, and intended to be just for fun –
whenever you see a <g> or <G> or <grin>, for example, the comment just before
is intended as kind of a joke, not to be taken seriously! Some other shortcuts
are <g,d&r> (grin, duck, and run), often reserved for communicating with Greg
Pyros; FWIW (for what it's worth); PMJI (pardon my jumping in) for interrupting
a conversation; BTW (by the way); and a variety of little sideways faces, like
:), :}, :], and 🙁
The phrase "refrain from talkin' south'rn" is a reference to the extreme
differences in dialect often found in different regions of the United States.
For example, I grew up in Pennsylvania, and when I went to college, I met some
people from the "deep south" (Alabama). I could not understand much of their
speech! I remember asking one person to repeat a sentence three times before I
could understand! The phrase "talkin' south'rn" was an attempt to make a
little fun of the area of the country where I live now – Tennessee. (My wife is
a native of Tennessee – after 23 years of marriage I can understand her
perfectly!)
BTW (by the way), I appreciate your recent message on creating images for
RED/GREEN stereo 3D viewing. I have experimented for many years with 3D
viewing by crossed-eye and stereo-viewer methods, mostly drawing 3D views by
hand or rendering with Autoshade. I have never tried to create any red/green
images, but would like to try. I may try to write a POCO program to aid in
combining two images. Thank you for your very good instructions.
JKJ 🙂
JKJ:
Remember, California is just a state of mind!
So, you like languages? Alex Karamanoglou and I are starting a Greek 3D
Studio User's Group!
Ti Kanes, Alex? Poli Kala, efharristo! Kea esi?
Please note the lack of accent, and the perfect formation of the vowels! <g>
Our first project will be to create a Hellenic alphabet in 3D!
Greg (the Galloping Greek) Pyros
Ti perisotero tha bourousi na zitisi ena ginekka!
(Can I join too? Can I can I?)
Michele:
>> Ti perisotero tha bourousi na zitisi ena ginekka!
Malista!! Poson kero ekanes stin Ellatha?
Pernas kala stin Australia? Pos paee i thoulia?
Kalispera sas, Keeria!
Efharristo poli!
Greg (it's all Greek to me!) Pyros
Oh, now you are taking me away from my five memorised sentences, which makes it
a lot tougher.
Eimai stin Australia. Otan itan mathitria sto panepestimio, mathena ellinikes.
I did a semester at college, and I used to be able to string together a few
sentences, but it's been so long… I'd like to study it again, as I will be
visiting there in a few months. I'm going to get one of those cassette tape
courses from the library and start practicing.
Would you be interested in corresponding with me in Greek? It would make it a
lot easier for me to learn.
Please send your address if so. I should have known that with a name like
Pyros…
I went to college in Montreal, where there is a large Greek community, and
enjoyed many a souvlaki with a side of feta salad. What is that sauce they put
in souvlaki anyway? It would always stay with me for a couple of days.
Michele
You are right John,
Compuserve is very beautyful. When I did my first session in CIS, I had the
wonderful feeling that the whole earth will shrink to one point. Suddendly
there are no frontiers. I can talk from my desk to people in other countries
and continents without paying much money. I really love it.
In a sience fiction story I read that in the year 2000 all telephone calls
around the world will cost only some pence. Since that, the hole human
population become a gossip (I found this word in my english dictionary) and a
few years later all wars end and it was peace for ever on earth. Perhaps this
missing day will come. Hopefully I believe CIS is a step in this direction.
I don't know you, you don't know me but we have us to say so much things.
Misunderstandings will be corrected and we can learn from each other, not only
for our work with 3DS or something else as well for our life. It helps us to
understand other cultures, and perhaps the day will arrive where you ring my
bell, or I stand in front of your door and we go for a coffee in the next pub
in order to philosophize face to face to each other.
Thanks for your input and
liebe Gruesse aus Deutschland an den Rest der Welt
Ingo
BTW: Look for a message wich I sended to Carl Finch under 3DSTER.EXE where I
descriped how to bring two stereo flics together in AniPro and also for two
stereo red/green images I uploaded: 3DCHIP.GIF and 3DSTIL.GIF
>>reminds me that we are all part of a much larger world…
This, I feel, is an extremely important point for us all…thanks for hitting
on an often overlooked concept, John.
-Alan