#Outlined Objects
12 messages in this thread
I've been lurking around here for a few weeks and I have learned much from
everyone here; thanks! Now I have a specific question that needs answerin':
I work for a Southern California game development company which is bidding for
a job that requires 3D objects to look very cartoony (flat color, no shadows,
and outlined.) The colors and shapes I can handle just fine, but I'm having a
problem with the outlines!
I've tried assigning a wireframe material from the Materials Editor to the
objects and elements, but I obviously get a wireframe mesh. Then I created a
.GIF of a solid color with a line around all four edges, imported that in as a
face-mapped texture, and assigned it to my objects/elements. . . but I still
got a wireframe look from it. I had hoped it would ignore all the faces that
lie on the same plane, giving me an object with lines only on the edges, but it
didn't. So now I don't know what to do. I'm hoping that I don't have to map
separate .GIF files onto each surface with corresponding outlines. What a
nightmare!
The type of outline I'm looking for is one that defines the outside edges of an
object, the intersection of objects/elements, and defines separations of
colors/materials. I've seen a friend using SOFTFROMAGE click on a button called
"Hidden-line Removal / Smoothed" and produce a black & white line drawing from
his object that looked like it had been drawn by hand! And Disney's stampeding
Wildebeest herd in "The Lion King" was rendered using something similar. Do you
know if there is a secret 3DS method, IPAS routine, or ambitious IPAS developer
who can help me get outlines on my objects and elements? I think my company
would be willing to fork out some $ if it came to getting something written.
Thanks for all your help and for providing this wonderful service!
Sean
Hi Sean,
<< The type of outline I'm looking for is one that defines the outside edges of
an object, the intersection of objects/elements, and defines separations of
colors/materials… >>
Hmm..the only thing that comes to mind right now, that may solve at least the
outside edges part of your question, is Aaron's aura effect in the LenZFX IPAS
Plug-In. You may want to start a dialog with Aaron @74672,127 and submit your
needs as a wishlist item for a future release.
Anyone else have any ideas on this one?
jonas[adesk]
Jonas,
This is really a good one — one I've wished for for quite some time. For
those of us without artistic talent, 3DS would make it possible to do things
that looked quite like traditional cell animation if it had this feature. If
Softimage (and others) can do this, then why not our favorite program? (Can
you imagine what the demo reel would look like, what with Bones and Skin, if we
could then reduce the frames to look like Disney?).
I own LensFX and I'll certainly ask Aaron about this, but I'm not sure his
routines correctly handle objects that cross themselves (like an arm in front
of a body, for example). Maybe Gary could comment on whether this is even
possible within the current structure of 3DS (of anyone I'm sure he knows how
other programs accomplish this).
Heck… anything is possible in the world of software. It's just a matter of
how much time you've got vs what your resources are.
– G
>>other outline ideas?…
I've thought about this before, and I think you can do it with traditional
image processing techniques using sobel, (or perhaps dilation and erosion
kernels) on the alpha channels of the individual objects against a black
background. I think one could create an outline layer consisting of just the
outline that could be composited with the rendered image. I haven't
experimented, but it may be a bookkeeping nightmare to keep up with all the
layers.
I vote for a built in outline option, and ESPECIALLY a simple hidden line
wireframe rendering option with real wireframes.
JKJ
<<..I vote for.. wish..>>
got it.
Viewpoints Datatool programmers just finished writing some new hidden-line
software so we could fix the problems with the wiremesh output of the datasets
in our catalog. (look at the high-res teeth)
As a result, we have the program these guys are looking for. Any interest out
there? IPAS?
>>wireframe render, any interest?…
Yes! A routine that would render clean wireframes (with or without
hidden-lines), would be very useful. Does your existing program run on the PC?
Are you offering to release it?
My off-the-cuff wishlist for a perfect (IPAS) routine might include:
– render the selected viewport
– turn hidden lines on/off
– give a choice of background/wireframe colors
– have the option of using the 3DS editor colors for the meshes
– output to the same bitmap types (TGA, etc) as 3DS
– output to a plotter
– render from the Editor and Keyframer (animated wireframes would
be VERY useful)
– optional antialiasing of lines with alpha
– selectable line thickness
– optional line thickness in pixels or user units
– ???
This all I can think of this early in the morning. Without hooks into the
render in [the current version of] 3DS, much of this may not be practical.
Even a stand-alone (non-IPAS) program that could read a 3DS (or even, <gasp>, a
DXF file) would be useful. To get clean wireframes, I currently have to import
DXF into AutoCAD.
JKJ
>>Viewpoints Datatool programmers just finished writing some new hidden-line
software so we could fix the problems with the wiremesh output of the datasets
in our catalog. (look at the high-res teeth)
As a result, we have the program these guys are looking for. Any interest out
there? IPAS? <<
Hummm! I like the sound of this! I obviously need lots of details and if this
would work with my files. Do you use 3DS to do your catalog renderings? Is the
program compatible with 3DS? Is this something that my company could get a
license to?
Thanks for your input and feel free to leave the info here or at 75721,1564.
Later, Sean Platter
>As a result, we have the program these guys are looking for. Any interest out
>there? IPAS?
I'm certainly interested in a program that could do what I described, but I'm
not sure generating hidden wire frame removal would do the trick (maybe it
would, but I don't understand all this stuff very well). Wouldn't this simply
be a mesh looking object? What I really want (and what I think Sean wants as
well) is a something that can outline the "edges" of an object, so that a
cartoon like appearance can be made.
Now, this could be with or without a video post (to combine an edge routine
with a "flat" routine) but the key is the edge showing. If what I think you're
talking about is what you have, if I had an arm in front of a body I'd get the
edges of the arm all right, but I'd also get the mesh of the arm in front,
which is what I definitely do NOT want (just the outline of the arm).
But perhaps I either don't understand what you have, or maybe what you have can
be modified somewhat to provide what we want. In that case, I'd be happy to
pay the usual IPAS rate for such a beastie!
Sean,
welcome to the world of non-lurkers. It's good to see you on the board. You had
to come on with a tough question, didn't you? <G>
I think, in the absence of a hidden-line removal feature, you are going to need
to paint custom texture maps for the outlines and I know you know how to do
that. Or you could add additional geometry which is used for a geometric
outline. You could then assign the outline material to it, but in a
poly-rendered game that may be impractical, because it would raise the poly
count. In a pre-rendered 3d objects-to-sprite game it wouldn't be such a
problem.
<<I work for a Southern California game development company which is bidding
for a job that requires 3D objects to look very cartoony (flat color, no
shadows, and outlined.) The colors and shapes I can handle just fine, but I'm
having a problem with the outlines!>>
I played with Photoshop and found that if you take the original image copy it
as a new layer then apply "Find Edges" to the image then you get a good outline
of the objects. You can then convert this to black and white or the colours you
want. Then change the opacity of this layer so that the original "flat" objects
are seen through the "outline" layer. It produces an interesting effect.
I haven't tried but Painter could possibly apply the same effect to an entire
animation.
David "Found my edges" Gould