CompuServe Thread

#R11 Xref (entmod)??

5 messages in this thread
#28518From: Peter K. SheerinJan 13, 1992 11:23 PM
Well, I'd like to try to convince you, anyway. Sure, not every user or discipline will have the need to change the properties of specific xref'd entities, but some of us do. It's common enough for us to run into situations where we have entities in certian drawings which can have lables like "proposed-existing" or worse used to describe them. It won't happen in new construction, usually, but can easily happen when improvement work is being done on a parking lot, road, or highway. The need to show one particular stretch of curb & gutter as a solid linetype in one construction detail drawing (for purposes of clarity, or other reasons), even though it really only one part of an overall design otherwise, is difficult to deal with now. I wouldn't want to use the capability on a large-scale basis, but the ability to change the appearance (or even presence of) a few selected entities in an xref'd drawing would definately be ideal for such cases. It modifies the appearance in only that one target drawing (and perhaps even only one viewport), and the alternatives are not pretty. Another way may be the ability to simply control visiblity of specific xref'd entities, and then to draw on top of it with the correct color & linetype, but having to duplicate those entities fragments the design database somewhat, and may have other drawbacks. The only alternatives available now are to return to the source file, add a new layer, and move the entities to that layer. And then you still have the VISRETAIN problem to deal with (gosh, I hope that get's soved in R12!), and possibly other problems related to VPLAYER on/off settings for new viewports (?). I really don't see it as such a major extention, but rather a needed enhancement. Nor do I see it as defeating the purposes of xref's. In fact, I think my example shows how it could make them much more flexible and usefull. Just my $.02*inflation=??? Back to your side of the court…
#28619From: Larry Beck [Windows TM]Jan 14, 1992 4:12 PM
Peter: I would say it comes down to drafting convention – I put all of those things onto separate layers, and therefore a layer-specific rather than entity-specific approach solves these problems for me. I understand what you're saying and attempting to do – the solution *I* want is different because my use is different. Larry
#28659From: Peter K. SheerinJan 14, 1992 7:29 PM
I think both conventions are valid. When it's all done with layers, one's layering standard can become convoluted. If I've got several groups of entities that need to have different appearances in other drawings, then I am forced to have one additional layer for each group. This can really make a layering standard somewhat confusing, and just feels to klutzy to me. Perhaps a better extention would be to move to something like the nested layers that were spoken of here before? What I like about entity specific properties on xref'd data, is that it is so specific to that one drawing, and doesn't affect anything in other parts of the drawing, or other sheets for that matter. Also, if you have to deal with something like the UK layering system, imagine the headaches that might cause…. Perhaps it is worth waiting for something like ObjectCad, though. It might be that much more natural in such an environment. I should also stretch, if it isn't clear enough, that I'm not talking about large scale individual entity changes; I think that would be entirely inappropriate, and would suggest to me that my layering scheme was not deep enough in it's level of detail. Just some food for thought…
#28717From: Larry Beck [Windows TM]Jan 15, 1992 8:32 AM
Peter: >> When it's all done with layers, one's layering standard can become convoluted. If I've got several groups of entities that need to have different appearances in other drawings, then I am forced to have one additional layer for each group. << Well, if they need to appear different from each other within one drawing, I'd say they are different entity types! Face it – a sprinkler line needs to be shown solid in some plans, perhaps dashed in another, and hidden in yet others. However, that sprinkler line should *not* need to be shown as part dashed and part hidden in one drawing, unless there is an issue such as demolition/new work/existing to remain, in which case each of these should be placed on their own layer! Nested layers – yes, I agree. However, over a year ago I developed my own quasi- nested layering, and now I don't really need an internal nesting scheme. The wildcard characters make this fairly easy, with a little foresight and planning, followed by strict adherence to the standard. Speaking of the UK standard… I used that as the basis of *my* standard. The "food" you send is interesting, and please keep in my mind that I'm only speaking for myself – pass the salt? <g> Larry
#28742From: Joe MacRaeJan 15, 1992 12:13 PM
Peter, Having that kind of access to the XREF is rather self-defeating. You may as well just inport the drawing as a block. You should have control over the layers though as far as turning them on or off, freezing, thawing, color and linetype through the layer command.