#A3000/2088 BB Questions
25 messages in this thread
Hi, folks! The Question Man here with some Bridgeboard questions. I have an
Amiga 3000 running OS 2.05 with 6 Megs ram (2 chip, 4 fast), but I need to have
a PC-compatible to run Turbo Pascal for a class, so I have just bought a used
2088 Bridgeboard (the one with the 5.25" disk drive). Here are my questions: 1.
Once I set up, partition, format and 'install' the virtual C: drive, can I use
the bridgeboard _without_ the 5.25" drive connected? 2A. Is there a way to
_replace_ the 5.25" drive with a 3.5" drive (that is, hook a 3.5" drive to the
5.25" drive's connector to use as the A: drive? 2B. If so, what kind of drive
must I get, and how much is it likely to cost? [In case you can't tell, cost
is a _major_ consideration, since the 3000 dented our computer budget big
time!]
Thanks in advance, everyone! *B^)
Pat,
To answer your first question, yes you can set up the psuedo-drive as a
boot drive so you won't need the 5 1/4" drive except to get software from
floppy to the hard drive. The answer to your second question is something I'm
not real sure about. The 2088 is designed only to support 360k drives. I don't
know if it will recognize a 3.5" drive although you could certainly try. You
would need to use a 360k drive. I'm not real sure where you might find such an
animal, but they shouldn't cost much more than $60 or so. Alternatively, the BB
has a drive connector on the back which will accept any normal Amiga floppy
drive. You need to check the documentation to verify drive compatibility. I
was looking for mine, but can't lay my hands on it at the moment.
Pat,
I found the book. On page 96 it says you can use either a 5 1/4" or
3.5" drive as an internal drive, but the 3.5 drive can only be used as a 360k
or 720k drive. To use it as a 720k drive you need to add the following to your
CONFIG.SYS:
DRIVPARM=/D:01 /F:2 /B:02 /S:09 /T:80
If you connect a drive to the external connector on the back of the BB, it will
ONLY be recognized as drive B:.
I guess this answers your questions.
Steven,
The '/B:02' is a misprint in that manual. Your line will work if
corrected (change the B to H) as follows:
DRIVPARM=/D:01 /F:2 /H:02 /S:09 /T:80
The /C parameter that I have is for drives that can detect a change of
diskette. I THINK most 3.5 inch drives can do this but not 5.25 inch
drives. The safer course might be to leave it out.
My line from my CONFIG.SYS file is as follows:
DRIVPARM /D:1 /C /F:2 /H:2 /S:9 /T:80
BTW, do you think DRDOS 7 will soon be out? Especially since PC
Magazine has DOS 6 all over its most recent edition! On page 116 of that
issue, the writer mistakenly says that Superstor PRO is bundled with DRDOS
6. Actually, Superstor PRO is the upgrade that Addstor offers to the
bundled DRDOS 6 Superstor for approximately $50. (The list price is
approximately $150.)
See'ya around the bitstream!
Sincerely,
(Mr.) Gayle Lee Fairless
'Perfessor Fearless' from the Rocket City!
Gayle,
I don't know if 7 will be out soon. Wonder what they'll do to improve
it? I suppose they might wait to put it out around the time MSDOS 6 comes out!
I have SuperStor PRO. It's very nice. Much better than the stripped
old version that came with DRDOS. Don't know how I would get those enormous
Windows programs on the drive without it. A 100 meg drive wasn't nearly big
enough!
Steven,
There is speculation on NDSG (formerly DRFORUM) by the members (not the
sysops, just ;-)'s from them!) that it would have multi-tasking and
perhaps some netware stuff.
Thanks for the remark about SuperStor PRO. I have it, too, but have
not installed it. (Great minds run in the same channel! ;-> )
I tried to install a high density drive into our Amiga 2000HD. Well,
the dealer is going to have to, uh, reassemble it for me. :-/ Oh well,
my fat fingers just don't work right inside the case. I also need a
better light and a place to work.
I might skip a day or two getting back unless I use my Apple.
Sincerely,
(Mr.) Gayle Lee Fairless
'Perfessor Fearless' from the Rocket City!
Gayle,
Let's see, now, multi-tasking huh? Does this mean "true" multi-tasking
ala O/S2 and Windows NT? Just what the DOS world needs, another multi-tasking
competitor! Maybe CBM ought to think about licensing AmigaDOS to the DOS world
like Jobs has tried with NextStep. I'm truly looking forward to a true
multi-tasking OS on the DOS box which doesn't need more than 20 meg of disk
space and a 60 Mhz CPU to be tolerable. Anyway, don't get too excited. It
will probably require a 32 bit bus, so it won't be of much use on a
bridgeboard.
Sorry about your problems with the drive. Working inside a 2000 isn't
usually too much of a problem, but those tiny screws for the 5" drives is
tiresome!
Steven,
Yes, it would be true multi-tasking from Novell DOS 7. I doubt that it
will require a 32-bit bus. Doesn't OS/2 run on the bridgeboard?
Multi-tasking comes from the software. The ability to run in protected
mode or a special security mode for the operating system is what really
makes a multi-tasking system robust. Otherwise, tasks have to be 'good
citizens.' Of course, the larger bus would let the system run faster.
About a decade ago, I programmed in Z80 assembly language to put a
realtime multi-tasking system inside a toll terminal and automatic ticket
issuing machine for the New Jersey Turnpike Project. The tasks were
hard-wired but had their own stack and environment, more or less. The
first 2 EPROM's had the kernel and operating system.
I've usually worked inside the Amiga 2000 rather well. But the drive
ribbon cable was too short to reach the 2 drives and the motherboard.
Also, one pin got shorted or cut, (I forget which!). Anyway, my dealer
replaced the cable and installed the DF1:/PC1: high density drive which
still insists on acting like a low density drive. Oh well, I'm going to
experiment with the mountlists in DEVS: and Sys:WBStartup directories.
Sincerely,
(Mr.) Gayle Lee Fairless from the Rocket City!
Gayle,
What version ROM are you using and what version AmigaDOS? The HDDs
were supposed to be a problem with 2.04 AmigaDOS, but OK with 2.1. They won't
be with 1.3 ROMs, though. If you are using 2.04, find a program called
HDFixer. It's supposed to help get HDD drives to work on the 2000 under 2.04.
Maybe that will help.
I think O/S2 does run on a bridgeboard, but what advantage is there to
an operating designed to need a 32 bit bus for best performance when it is
running on a 16 bit machine? Besides, I really doubt that O/S2 is worth the
cost and disk space in lieu of Windows. For our small little machines I thing
Windows is probably best. But if DRDOS can certainly come up with a better
solution, I'm interested. I sure like DRDOS 6 much better than MSDOS.
Steven,
The system is upgraded to version 2.1. Denny just told me to put the
high density jumpered as DF0:/PC0: and not to set the motherboard jumper.
Guess that'll be my next experiment!
I got a friend at the Huntsville PC Users Group to format a couple of
high density MSDOS/DRDOS 1.44 MegaByte 3.5 inch diskettes for me. The
system could not validate the File Allocation Table.
Are you going to spring for the $200 386 BB's from Safe Harbour? But
you already have one so I guess you don't want another except as a spare?
On my XT BB, I can't even run Windows, but I like to run Norton
Commander Version 3.0 at work and will probably install the one (I got it
on a discount sale.) that I bought when I get time. I'm still reading
through the manual on SuperStor PRO before installing it.
That $200 386 BB certainly looks tempting!
Sincerely,
(Mr.) Gayle Lee Fairless
'Perfessor Fearless' from the Rocket City!
Snort. We've had "true" multi-tasking since 1985 – quite a while before OS/2
came out. And I won't believe in NT till I see it.
Also, AmigaDOS is very tightly bound to the Amiga architecture – less than it
used to be, but good luck doing an Intel port.
Sheesh. I wish I could kill that last post. It went out the door before my
brain kicked into action. Sorry, Steve, Apparently you're talking about bridge
boards, not AmigaDOS.
Michael,
You have the power to delete any message that is from you or to you. At
the end of the message, just type DELETE and it will go away. You cannot
do this to any message unless it is either from or to you, however.
—Betty
Thanks Betty – that'll give me time to repair any "shoot before aiming" type
messages.
Michael,
Are you sure your message was meant for me? I'm not doing any Intel
port. The previous discussion was actually about the possibility that DRDOS 7
might be multi-tasking OS for the PC.
Actually, I've heard rumors about that (DRDOS will multi-task) I can imagine
that since DR is now part of Novell, along with USL (A UNIX maker) we could see
all kinds of interesting extensions to DOS.
Michael,
Well, I like DRDOS. I've been using it quite awhile. It's much better
than MSDOS 5.0, in my opinion. I certainly would upgrade if they come out with
DRDOS 7. I have no desire to move up to MSDOS 6. One thin about staying with
DRDOS is that they support SuperStor which I use to get enough disk space out
of my 100 meg drive to handle all those ENORMOUS windows programs.
Pat,
I also bought my 2088 bridgeboard used. It is not necessary to put the
fake_c file for your pseudo-drive into a separate partition unless you
just want to.
Going directly to your questions, why bother disconnecting the 5.25
inch drive? Leave it as your A: drive. I leave it empty to make it boot
from the C: drive and then put a formatted diskette in it once the C:
drive is booting to speed up access. I can connect an external Air
(A1010) drive to the connector on the bridgeboard for a B: drive with 3.5
inch diskettes of 720K capacity. Getting an external 3.5 inch drive to
use as a B: drive is much simpler than replacing the 5.25 inch A: drive.
You may need to place the following line into your config.sys file on
your booting pseudo hard drive for the bridgeboard to have proper access
to your 3.5 inch external drive as a B: drive:
DRIVPARM /D:1 /C /F:2 /H:2 /S:9 /T:80
I also recommend that you update the OS to version 2.1 because it
includes CrossDOS. This would allow you to use the Amiga drives as PCx:
devices that have the MSDOS/DRDOS format for simple file transfers. I
also recommend that you upgrade the Janus software to 2.1. The Janus
software that probably came with your XT bridgeboard WILL NOT work well
with OS versions 2.0 and above. You would have to copy the files to the
proper places from a pre-existing installation. You could NOT run an old
version of PCPrefs without a system crash!
In a way, you're lucky that you bought the XT BB because it has the
connector on the back for an external 3.5 inch to act as a B: drive.
Hope this helps!
Sincerely,
(Mr.) Gayle Lee Fairless
'Perfessor Fearless' from the Rocket City!
Thanks, Gayle Lee and Steven — you answered most of my most pressing
questions excellently! You know, I _wondered_ about that 'H' in the DRIVPARM
line in the CONFIG.SYS. Thanks for clearing that up. BTW, the reason I want
to run without the 5.25" drive is there's no room for one in the 3000 — there
are 2 3.5" bays accessible from the front, and another 3.5" bay behind df0:,
but no space inside the cabinet for anything bigger. In order to set the board
up, I'll have to boot off the floppy with the drive sitting next to the
computer with the case open or all the wires running through the slot opening
in back. Then I can FDISK and FORMAT the virtual C: drive so I can disconnect
the giant clunker 360K drive and put my case back together and boot from the
virtual C:.
As to Amiga OS 2.1 having CrossDOS, I already use msh, a shareware utility
that does the same thing. I have been using it successfully with IBeM, a
shareware PC-XT emulator and 720K MS-DOS disks in the Amiga drives. I have seen
rumors that CrossPC is descended from IBeM. In fact, I'd probably be happy
just to keep using that, but it's just too darn S-L-O-W, and I haven't been
able to figure out how to use a hard drive partition with it, although that's
supposed to be possible.
"Professor Fearless," in your answer about Janus, you said PCPrefs under
Janus 2.0 and Amiga OS 2.xx would cause a system crash. Don't you mean the
PCInstall program? That's the one that installs all the Amiga-side system
files, which I've already copied to the right places "by hand." Won't I _have_
to use PCPrefs to set the shared memory address?
Thanks again, people! *B^)
Pat,
With regard to the PCPrefs, perhaps it might not crash your
configuration, but it certainly crashes our Amiga 2000HD! I still
recommend a Janus 2.1 upgrade just to be sure it works and to get the
improvements in performance.
If you copied it by hand, hopefully what you copied is what you want.
As for the 360K drive, it appears that you can leave it off once you
are finished with it, but it is still easier to hook a 3.5 inch external
drive to the connector on back of the XT bridgeboard to use it as a B:
drive.
Sincerely,
(Mr.) Gayle Lee Fairless
'Perfessor Fearless' from the Rocket City!
Well, I got the 8088 bridgeboard to work in the 3000! [Why bother, you
might ask; well, that's another story! *B^) ] Since the PCInstall program that
comes with Janus 2.0 writes a 1.3 bootblock to sys: and the 3000 is running
2.05, I simply copied the necessary files to the right places "by hand" and all
went well. PCPrefs was no problem at all. Now the problem is that clunky
5.25" floppy drive that is its A: drive — there's no room for it in the 3000.
Once I got all the system software copied into the virtual C: drive, I
disconnected the giant clunker so I could close the case again, but now I can't
get my external Amiga 3.5" drive (M.A.S.T. UniDrive) to work as the B: drive.
My guess is it's because the A: drive isn't connected, but I forgot to test it
before disconnecting the overlarge obsolete hunk of metal.
"Dr. Fearless," you mention "improvements in performance" with Janus version
2.1 — I hadn't heard about that! Please, tell me more!
What I would _really_ like to do is find a way to hook up a 720K 3.5" drive
to the 5.25" drive's connector as the new A: drive — that, I could fit into
the 3000's case, no problem. What say you, hardware hackers? Is there a way?
Does CBM have any tech support, say in AmigaVendor, or over the phone? [An 800
number would be too much to hope for!] Is there balm in Gilead? The
Question Man *B^) P.S. Since we're talking about PC stuff, does anyone know
what a Seagate ST-05 (or ST-05X, I don't remember) board does? Is it an IDE
controller for the XT? T.Q.M.
Pat,
My external drive is an Air 3.5 inch drive that can handle the Amiga
880K/BB 720K formats. Don't forget the DRIVPARM /D:1 /C /F:2 /H:2 /S:9
/T:80 command in the CONFIG.SYS file that Steven and I told you about.
I think I read the Janus 2.1 improvements in one of Marion J Deland
72550,1733 CROSSINGS newsletter. If you contact her in the Bridgeboard
Section 12 on the AmigaUser forum, she can probably give you a more
comprehensive list. Also, Steven D. Kapplin 70055,1021 here has already
upgraded to Janus 2.1 on his system. I'm getting it partly on his
enthusiastic recommendation. My dealer is getting it for me. The Janus
commands AREAD/AWRITE have more options. Also, the installation program
works as I've already told you.
There probably is a hardware hack for making A: drive a 3.5 inch drive,
but you're talking to the guy who just took the Amiga 2000HD into his
dealer to get his drive installed correctly. Now one of the cables was
too short and had pin 3 or 4 shorted out, but I've just not a hardware
hacker. I can tell you that you would need DRIVPARM /D:0 /C /F:2 /H:2
/S:9 /T:80 in your CONFIG.SYS file. Notice that only the /D parameter
changed.
It may be only a matter of getting a multi-function VGA card that has
memory, ports, and controllers on it. I know Dave Cinege 70322,447 of
Elite Micro Computers has such a card. I don't know if that will work.
He might be able to tell you how to hack the A: drive. After all, he does
sell a Commodore A2386 card modified to have a 486 chip.
Good luck!
Sincerely,
(Mr.) Gayle Lee Fairless
'Perfessor Fearless' from the Rocket City!
Gayle, thanks again.
I read of your problem getting your system to recognize the high density
floppy drive — you might try this, which I read about in the Bug Bytes column
in Amazing: insert the HD floppy & wait until its icon appears; remove the
floppy; insert it again. A fellow writing in to the columnist said this worked
with his AEHD drive.
Why didn't you guys TELL me there was a Bridgeboard area?!?!? *B^)
[WhaHoo!!] I guess I should have spent a little more time looking, but in this
time of penny-pinching, I don't go "exploring" on-line as much as I used to.
Thanks for pointing me the right way — I'm heading over there right now!
Maybe I'll see some of you folks over there! TTFN
Hi Pat,
I only have a lowly Amiga 500 with AmigaDOS 1.3.3 and 2.5 meg of fast and .5
meg of chip ram, so I can't really answer your questions very well, but here
goes:
1: I think that after you install the virtual C: drive you can boot the
BridgeBoard off the hard drive and so you shouldn't need the 5.25" floppy.
2a and b: If you get CrossDos or a similar program that makes your Amiga
3.5" floppy read and write to an IBM 720K disk you won't need the IBM drive to
get an IBM program into you Amiga, then onto the C: partition. I bought
CrossDos for approximatly $50 and I don't have any trouble with it. It won't
read the 1.4MB IBM disks, but I don't think you will need it just to get the
programs transfered. I use CrossDos to transfer programs to a clone laptop
that doesn't have a floppy drive, so I don't see that you will have a problem
with a BridgeBoard. Please understand that I can't be certain that this will
work, but I have read several messages that make me think that it can be done.
I think that will be the cheapest way to go if it works.
James Du Bois via Whap!
James — thanks for the feedback. We still have our old 500, too. As to
the bridgeboard floppy question — I managed to get the virtual C: drive set up
and now boot from that, so I disconnected the 5.25" drive so I could put the
3000's case back together. I have been successfully using MSH, a shareware
utility that does basically the same thing as CrossDOS, so transferring
software is no problem, except that AREAD (the program for reading files from
the Amiga side into the bridgeboard side) is just too darn S – L – O – W !!!
It won't accept wildcards, so if you have lots of files to transfer (for
example, the game Jeopardy! uses something like 47 files!), you can write a
script (batch file in MS-DOS terminology), start it running and go have lunch!
Anyway, I'm going over to the Bridgeboard section on AmigaUser and pester
_them_ with my endless questions! Thanks to everybody here — when our budget
recovers somewhat from the A3000 bite, I'll be back!
The Question Man *B^)