#FREE TEXTURES ????
33 messages in this thread
Perhaps you can forward the following to the people who organise the Second
Annual Autodesk Internation Image and Animation Award:
We just had a look at the Entry Requirements for the Autodesk 1994 Animation
Contest and are kind of surprised with the following:
QUOTE:
——
1. If rendered, the contest entry MUST be submitted in one of the following
file formats:
GIF, TGA, TIF, JPG. The preferred resolution is 1024 x 768, or higher.
The rendered entry MUST be accompanied by the source model(s), in DWG, 3DS,
and/or PRJ file format, plus ALL texture maps necessary to re-render the
model.
2. I hereby irrevocably, and without expectation of compensation therefor,
grant to Autodesk, Inc., its subsidiaries, associated companies, successors and
anyone acting under the authority or permission of any of them, including
authorized Autodesk Dealers, hardware manufacturers and publishers,
(collectively referred to as "Autodesk"), non-exclusive consent to use the
drawings, images, animations, computer code, support files, documents or other
video or electronic media files (the "Files") listed hereunder.
The above grant to Autodesk includes the right to modify and reproduce the
Files and to use, distribute or sell such modified or unmodified Files at its
sole discretion, and to sublicense such right to third parties. Furthermore, I
hereby understand and agree that Autodesk will not be obligated to give a
copyright notice credit for the Files. Any statement of authorship of
attribution of source shall be made at the sole discretion of Autodesk.
UNQUOTE:
——–
The combination of these clauses means that e.g. if one enters with a rendering
of a model, all support files have to be given to Autodesk. If these include
commercially available textures (from a 3rd party texture library) all rights
to these textures are assigned to Autodesk, including the right to modify and /
or sell them. Most users won't be able to do this, so they will not be able to
enter their renderings in this way. Other contestants, would sign away the
rights to the textures they carefully put together.
Is this indeed the correct understanding and should there not be a way to waive
some of these obligations to encourage more potential contestants to enter into
the Contest???
Hope to find out that this legal writing will not be an obstacle to a high
level competition.
Philip J. Hartog
RenderStar Technology BV
Amsterdam
the Netherlands
Indeed, you've brought up a good point. (I'm amazed we missed this, heckwe
tried to cover everything)
Right now, I feel comfortable in saying that any entry that requires
commercially available textures (from a 3rd party texture library), the entrant
can simply indicate that need and we (Autodesk) will be responsible for
aquiring and securing the usage of the required textures/IPAS routines. We may
require a source contact for the missing textures.
Also, materials constructed using IPAS routines fall under this issue also.
I'll see what we can do to append the rules so this isn't a problem.
Thank you for pointing out this issue and I expect we'll have a revised
document shortly.
Jamie
Autodesk, Visual Productions Group
Thanks for this reassurance. We will work on the premises that all 3rd party,
commercially available textures do NOT need to be included in the entry and
hope to see a revised form real soon!!
Regards,
Philip J. Hartog
Phil thanks for pointing out this issue for the contest, as the day progressed
we were able to adjust the rules to allow for copyrighted material to be
ommitted from the submission, provided we get information on where to aquire
the missing elements.
We also included meshes into this issue as well, however this really starts to
eat the integretiy of the submission.
Anyway, you should see a new document uploaded tomorrow.
Thanks again,
Jamie
Hi again Jamie,
Guess the discussion about the Contest rules is going further than we really
meant.
Just wanted to know if we overlooked the new Contest Form/Rules sheet, since we
have not seen the new upload yet.
Later,
Philip
Jamie,
>>The above grant to Autodesk includes the right to modify and reproduce the
Files and to use, distribute or sell such modified or unmodified Files at its
sole discretion,…
Sorry, this may be a standard form, but it makes me seriously consider
NOT sending anything in. I understand the need for the right do freely
distribute the actual entry for promotional purposes, etc, but there are a
couple of things that scare me. I have spent a great deal of time and effort
creating these images (stills or anim), and the last thing I want is to have
Adesk or anybody making changes to the mesh file and/or maps and rerendering
images to distribute and/or sell. I don't want any of the images I worked on so
hard to be changed without my knowledge and sold without recieving credit or
compensation. (maybe you can clear up what "sell" means exactly).
If I enter an image into a contest, I can easily give permision for
Adesk and family to use THAT image however and for whatever it wants, but I'm
not willing to give away all rights to the original meshes, maps, etc, for them
to change and do with what they want. Is there any way around this or am I
simply stuck signing over rights for EVERYTHING. I would certainly like to
enter some stuff into this contest, but if I'm stuck with the contract as is,
then I'm afraid I'll have to pass.
Thanks,
David
I understand your concern but these are the rules. We considered what this
requirement means to artist and graphic image developers and that is what
motovated the dollar amount of the prize(s).
Because we _sometimes_ use these images/source items as sample materials when
we ship a product, we must include the SELL clause in the entry form. Our goal
isn't to make money from selling your meshes and maps, but to use them as
examples that help to inspire others using the software. Obviously this
enhances the value of the software and must be considered as part of the sales
transaction.
We also must say 'credit is at our descression' because we can not always
guarentee a credit line in every promotion we do, but we will credit
contributors whenever possible. (even I get credit now and then)
In regards to the modification of the entry data for Autodesk's promotion
purposes, we have to be able to adjust the data into whatever promotion we're
trying to do. We may need different materials, camera angles, line types,
colors and so on. The _finacial_ motovation behind Autodesk producing this
contest is to collect images from its customers for promotional purposes. If
the images can't be easily reused for our promotional needs, then it reduces
their value. (gosh that sounds sort of cold, sorry)
I hope this helps to clarify these issues for you, I'm sorry it couldn't be
more flexible.
Thanks,
Jamie
Autodesk, Visual Productions Group
Thanks for the clarifications.
>>we _sometimes_ use these images/source items as sample materials when we ship
a product…
This is understandable and use of the entry image(s) in this is no
problem, but in my case I would not want to see the meshes wind up on the 3ds
CD, or maps wind up on a product like the Texture Universe CD, unless I agreed
to it on a case by case basis.
>>adjust the data into whatever promotion we're trying to do. We may need
different materials, camera angles, line types, colors…
This is exactly what I would object to. After spending weeks working on
something and getting it to look just right, having somebody change angles and
colors,etc, would be rather annoying, especially if the image suffered as a
result. It is a little different when you're hired to do something and know
from the start that the final result is in the control of someone else and the
project can be changed at any time, but when it's a personal project you can
understand the hesitation I have about giving up all control over changes made
to it, especially when the personal stuff is the best I've done. (I'd be happy
to make changes myself, but I know that this would not always possible)
I understand that rules are rules and cannot be changed, considering
the basic purpose of this promotion, and I must say because of this I wouldn't
feel comfortable sending anything in this time around (not any existing
projects, anyway) . I just wanted to let you know where I'm coming from and
hope you can understand my position. Thanks for listening.
David
>> After spending weeks working on something and getting it to look just right,
having >>somebody change angles and colors,etc, would be rather annoying.
I envy your control of your images and projects. In the production environment
we work in up here, we often have to adjust images to meet the client's
demands. (even after weeks of development) In the case of the data we gathered
last year, because we didn't enforce this rule it costs us days and sometimes
whole images when we wanted to use the entry in a promotion.
Often it was due to the resolution being too low or the camera angle not right
for the page layout. (Heck we would prefer not to make any changes if
possible)
Anyway, for next year, how much $$ as the grand prize would it take to make you
feel comfortable? Maybe all we really need to do is raise the ante?
Jamie
Autodesk, Visual Productions Group
>>I envy your control of your images and projects.
I know this is a rare thing and because the ONLY projects I do have
that kind of control over are my personal projects that I've spent alot of time
on, and because of this I value it VERY much, too much to hand all the work,
time, effort, and lose all touch with it just for the CHANCE to win something
(I know the exposure is a good thing too). There may be some stuff that I
wouldn't mind turning in for that chance, but it would be stuff that I didn't
spend too much effort on, and therefore would not be my best work.
I don't know how realistic this is, but a possible change for next
year (or this) would give the artist first opportunity to make any changes
desired by Adesk, and only if the artist passed on that chance would you guys
make the changes yourself. This still leaves my mesh / map concern, about
GIVING adesk all rights to the materials, even if you win nothing and walk away
empty handed (Adesk=1, artist=0).
>>how much $$ as the grand prize would it take to make you feel comfortable?
The key word here is GRAND prize. For ten grand I might send everything
I've got, but for one of the 1K prizes, I don't think so. For me (who knows how
others feel on this) I think that the single chance of getting the top prize
out of ? entries is more of a gamble than I'd like to take. Maybe higher second
and third place prizes might be more of an incentive.
I have no idea what others feel about this issue, but if they have the
same concerns as I do then you might miss out on alot of great work that some
people don't want to unconditionally sign over. I'm not expecting any changes,
but I think this issue warrants some more thought in the future. Thanks.
David
I would have to back you up on this, David. It basically says that the image
you submit is not so much a work of art, but a product (ie they are free to
alter meshes, maps, colors, composition, etc). "Didn't Ann Rand write a book
about this? <g> Let's go ask John Kiriksfaldi (sp?) if HE thinks it's a good
idea!
Dave
Dave,
>>I would have to back you up on this…
Thanks. I don't think I'm alone with this opinion, and maybe next year
they'll add in a little more flexibility.
>> John Kiriksfaldi (sp?)
Kricfalusi. I think simply 'John K.' is easier (so does he).
David
David:
PMJI In "The Romantic Manifesto" Ayn Rand has a couple of chapters on art.
However, she doesn't comment on meshes, maps and .prj files, only the original
.tif or .tga. 🙂
Bob
(Um, yeah — how could I have spelt Ayn as ANn?)
BTW, PFFTJIAT! <Please Feel Free To Jump In Any Time><G>
Dave
Robert,
I've noticed that we have a lot of architects on this forum (who else but an
architect reads Ayn Rand?<G>).
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed the similarity between this
"contest" and good old architectural design competitions? In architecture the
design competition is usually nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to
get a lot of architects to provide free design services. The AIA strongly
advises its members to avoid these "competitions".
Imagine if this were a contest for traditional art media.
"Submission of your painting, confers to Artdesk all rights to sell,
reproduce, repackage, or repaint your work. Credit will be given to the
artist at our discretion. Oh, by the way, the artist must also submit
original brushes, oils, and canvas to assist in the alteration of the work."
Yeah, sure!
Steven
Steve:
Wow! Did you ever read a message on this forum that spells out what was on your
mind then realize that someone else had posted it? Reading your message was
like "deja vu all over again!" (Credit Yogi Berra) I cringed when I read the
contest announcement and considered searching the text for "first born male
child" under submittal requirements. 🙂
Architectural "competitions" continually burn my shorts. My firm enters enough
of them but we are at least wary of the possibility of a scam. You are right
on the money with your comment on the "thinly veiled attempt to get a lot of
architects to provide free design services."
Not totally unrelated, but sending out copies of CADD files is getting me
really nervous. We have clients who request the files and we send them out.
Its exactly the same as digging into the old flat file and handing out your
precious tracings. I have already seen the digital equivalent of cut and paste
shop drawings. You know the ones I mean, a sub photcopies your drawings and
has some chicken scratcher note where he's installing some casework or some
heating unit. On some projects I think we've given away the farm. I'd love to
talk about this topic, I really get a bad feeling about this practice.
Bob
Yogi,
You have a valid concern regarding the disposition of CAD files. If I
remember right there was a discussion about this over on the architecture
section of the LEAP forum a while ago. It might be worth while bringing the
issue up again.
GO LEAP (I just love that name <G>)
Steven
I think Jamie's been basically misunderstood here. The ONLY reason he wants
the data is so he can re-render it at any resolution he needs for print media.
He has ABSOLUTLY ZERO INTENTION of changing anybody's work.
– G
Gary,
I think you misunderstand the comments about the contest, then.
Contracts take precedence over intent. Why don't they reflect the intent,
instead? I would not recommend any customer submit meshes, etc. under these
terms. And, as I understand it, the INTENT is for Autodesk to have access to
more images. I don't think this is the way to go about it.
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
I agree with you… Check out my msg to DavidS.
– G
>> ABSOLUTLY ZERO INTENTION of changing anybody's work.
I know Adesk is not set out to change submissions any way they can, and
would only do so if they felt it necessary for whatever reason, but if they
have the power to do so, than they CAN make changes to whatever degree they
wish (keep in mind that I'm not saying any change they make is going to ruin an
image, who knows, they might even make it better, however…). Jamie DID bring
up the possibility of changing colors or camera angles if necessary for layout
reasons. Considering that a shot is lit for a specific angle (especially a
complex shot), then changing that angle brings up the POSSIBILITY of having to
do a (sometimes major) change in the lighting as well. And colors?? I think the
possibility of changing colors is kinda scary, even if the chances are slim.
Letting Adesk use images for promotion or ads is one thing, but handing
over EVERYTHING along with the right to do anything to it (even if chances are
nothing will be touched) is another thing entirely. I'm sorry, but thats the
way I feel.
David
I agree with you about limiting Autodesk's right to only change the resolution
of the file. Everything else ought to be strictly forbidden. I suppose in a
perfect world that would be possible… But I can certainly see your side of
it. Here's the way I'd word it: I'd just ask for the ability to get a
custom-re-rendered version from the submittor at any resolution, within two
weeks of request. Then no .3ds/.prj and map files would be necessary.
– G
>>I suppose in a perfect world that would be possible…
Ah yes, it'd be great to live in a perfect world, wouldn't it?
David
Maybe in my next life…
– G
PS: I've been talking to Jamie about this issue in the background, and I'm
confident that he can come up with a policy that'll make everyone happy
(without the _requirement_ that you submit all of your source material).
Jamie
I seriously don't think I can get any of my clients to sign off on entering
this contest, IF the data can be changed without their or my knowledge. "Gee,
the building was grey marble when I designed it; why is it pink granite now?"
Or "Our logo is ALWAYS green; why is it gold?" Or "How could anybody pick THIS
angle of viewing? We NEVER wanted it seen from THERE"
Scary thoughts
JB
We realize that ANY contest will limit the type of data we get. The reality is
the entry is judged on the submitted Image or Animation. That becomes the
'signature' of that entry and we'll rarely change it in a promotion BUT the
reality is at some point we may need to and of course we are obligated to
'warn' the entrant.
In the entry form there is a section for describing the submission. You could
use this to outline any special concerns you have regarding changing the image.
Example: If used for promotional purposes, please leave the color scheme of
the logo intact.
Just a thought,
Jamie
Autodesk, Visual Productions Group
Jamie,
Regarding the image contest. I don't suppose you'd limit Autodesk's use
of images to only the "winning" entries, would you? That way those who submit
but gain no benefit from a prize feel protected, while the "risk" has been
worthwhile for those who "traded" rights for a prize.
Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
Nope, sorry not this year.
It's an interesting option that I'll make sure we consider for next year's
contest though.
I'll add it to the 'wishlist' 😉
Jamie
Autodesk, Visual Productions Group
Jamie:
I have to admit that I share David Stinnett's concerns. I entered last year's
contest and although I didn't win a prize, Mike Goos from Autodesk Visual
Productions contacted me to ask for mesh and texture files of my image so that
they could use it in an Autodesk publication. We were able to agree to the
request in this case but I think that I and those I work for would have been
upset if the files had been altered without our knowledge, let alone
permission.
I understand the concerns you raised in your replies, but I'm afraid in order
to protect the rights of my images I'd only be interested in submitting
finished work and would much prefer to deal with mesh and texture requests on a
case-by-case basis. You're within your rights to make the requests that you
make, but you may discourage a few from entering. I will decline to enter this
year's contest based on it's current rules.
sorry,
Bruce Meikle
Jamie,
We saw that you addressed one of our concerns in the previous version of the
Image Contest Rules. Another one is still there:
QUOTE:
All Entries (image or animation) must be created using Autodesk software or
Registered Developer products.
If rendered using non-Autodesk software, the entry will be judged as a "Line
art" image but only if the source model has been submitted.
UNQUOTE
Do these two statements jointly imply that renderings using Autodesk software
or Registered Developer products are acceptable for submission of rendered
images. We would be very disappointed if renderings made by e.g. our own
software (Registed Autodesk applications) would not be acceptable. Living so
far away we already feel like the illegitimate member of the Virtual
Corporation, but this would also exclude one of the few European winners of
last year's contest.
Again, we think that the point should be to welcome as many good entries as
possible that demonstrate the capabilities of the joint products from the
Virtual Corporation and not decreasing the level of this competition.
Hope you can (again) confirm our way of seeing things.
Regards,
Philip J. Hartog
RenderStar Technology BV
Amsterdam
the Netherlands
The purpose of this image and animation contest is to collect images from our
users that represent what can be done with Autodesk software. These images are
then used in company marketing promotions.
Even though there are other rendering solutions working within the Autodesk
virtual corporation, marketing can only promote the ones directly from Autodesk
and that is why we had to limit the entries to images rendered with Autodesk
renderers.
Jamie
Autodesk, Visual Productions Group
Philip,
<< legal woes with animation contests.. >>
I've forwarded your concerns/questions to our legal department.
Let's see what they say.
jonas[adesk]
Hi Jonas,
Think that Jamie Clay's response covers all we needed to hear.
Thanks anyway,
Philip