#Tape or harddrive backup
29 messages in this thread
After spending much of my morning repairing a trashed harddrive and not
being able to recover any of my AP:Messages and about 30megs of archives,
I've come to realize that I have to do something about backups.
I used to do regular floppy backups, however as my harddrive space has
grown and the number and size of the files has grown, I have gotten very
lax in this area. I know I'm not going to keep up with floppy backups,
exspecially when it takes almost two hours of inserting disks and removing
disks <G>.
My budget can probably afford a SCSI tape Backup drive and tapes, and I
could easily afford another harddrive. The question is which is the
better route and why, are there any downsides of using a harddrive as a
backup device VS. a tape drive or visa versa?
=Rick=
In a frictionless world where hardware is free, both is better. You
mirror HDs in real-time with dual controllers and cut over to the "backup"
if the primary drive fails. At the same time, you maintain tape archives
in case of catastrophic failure (such as a lightning strike), and for
off-site disaster recovery (fire, flood, etc.).
If you can only buy one or the other, tape is probably better. It makes
it possible to move huge amounts of data cheaply, doesn't wear out as fast
as HDs, allows multiple backups (i.e., you find you got a virus last week
and want the previous week's backup), etc., etc.
I recently went DAT. Well under $1k (about $500 refurb) will get you a
drive that will store 2gig on tiny tapes that cost $10-20. QIC drives are
just about obsolete, they go slower, store a lot less data, and the tapes
cost a lot more. The money you save on the drive doesn't fly vs. the cost
of the media over the years. For an effective backup system, you should
be using at least a half-dozen tapes, and you'll want to replace all of
those tapes every N full backups.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Hello,
PMJI but, I've been here on CIS via AutoPilot (and WINCIM from work) for
many months now but until now have not made my presence known. I feel
that I've been eaves dropping on a hundred different people and I finally
got up enough nerve ,I only have one left :), to jump in and ask a
question. Soooo, Here goes. . . . . .
I'm asking this question here because It sort-of pertains to this thread.
I am in the process of starting up a BBS (I wonder how many times that has
been said?) and I have aprox. 30 8mm exabyte DAT tapes that I would like
to get a drive for. I noticed you said that a refurb. 2gig drive could
run as little as $500 or less (is that 8MM DAT?) and if so, do you (or
anyone else out there) have any experience using an 8mm tape drive as a
main source for a BBS. We use a 10gig DAT drive at work for backups so
I've come to know the price/gig ratio of DAT drives. But thats on an
AS/400. A big difference from ole' AMI here.
. . . Well now, that was'nt as bad as I thought. I'm used to asking
questions on my local BBS's (Lake Charles, LA) but CIS is the same station
but on a MUCH BIGGER TV. (Just as easy to use but still a whole lot more
intimidating). TIA
Brian
4mm DAT. I'm 90% sure that 8mm exabyte is not DAT. Exabyte is a physical
format used by video tapes, then adapted to data storage. I think
Exabyte is also a fiar bit slower than DAT. I think if a BBS had a few
hundred meg for popular files and a DAT tape running Tape Worm, that might
work fine. The problem is that it might take as much as a minute or two
to find a file on the DAT tape. If your users will put up with that, it
will let you store huge amounts of files.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Dale,
Thanks for the prompt answer. 4mm huh! Darn. I really would have
liked to have gotten some use out of these 8mm tapes. I really had'nt
checked on the format we used at work I just knew we dropped from aprox.
40 reel to reel tapes down to 1 tape that fits in my pocket by switching
to 8mm. Thanks again.
Brian.
The 4mm format can store as much as the 8mm format. I believe there are
10gig 4mm drives/cartridges.
You might be able to find an 8mm Exabyte drive for about the same price.
I think they are cheaper new, but don't lose as much value used or refurb
(something about video people liking them or something (I don't know
details) keeps demand high,).
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Dale…
where can one find a 2 gig tape drive for under $500.00??
Bill… on Autopilot in Womelsdorf 😉
~$499 refurb units are available from several CA dealers. Unfortunately,
I don't have any names or numbers handy, or have an idea where I might
have kept them if I didn't toss them. The cheapest units are 5.25
Full-Height. It is worth the extra bucks to get a HH or even 3.5" unit.
I think the best bet (though not the cheapest) is to pay a little more and
buy a drive from Intellegent Designs, the new owners of AmiBack and to get
AmiBack bundled with the drive if you don't already ahve AmiBack.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
thanx for the info… I already have Ami-Back and their tools, but I'll
check them out anyway!!
Bill… on Autopilot in Womelsdorf 😉
How/where can I find a SCSI tape drive for a reasonable price. I am tired of 20
floppy backups and I think that tape would be a better choice. To my knowledge
only the A3070 is available for the Amiga but I could be mistaken. How about a
Macintosh tape backup. Can I get a 25 to 50 pin converter? Can I get an IDE
controller for my A2000 and use an IBM drive? Also, I can get a Colorado Memory
Systems internal drive for about $200.00 which uses the parallel port (that
should be external drive). Where could I get a driver for that type of drive?
Any information would be extremely helpful as I am not a real techie.
Thanking all in advance.
Any SCSI tape drive will work with your Amiga…
I am currently using a QIC 1/4" cartridge type system, the Archive Viper,
which can back up 150 or 250 MBytes to a 1/4" tape cartridge (the
cartridge determines the capacity).
The 4mm DAT and 8mm Exabyte drives will backup 1,2,4,5,8,or 10 MBytes
depending on the model. I am going to buy one soon to back up digital
audio projects… four tapes is almost as much of a hassle as floppies!
The IDE aproach might work, but that would be dependent on the software,
and I do not know if either AmiBack or QuarterBack supports that. You
should check with them, though if you are going to buy the IDE card for
tape backup only it may not be cost effective… with scsi all you need is
the drive, I pad around $300 for my Viper.
The parallel port drives are not supported by any package I know of, I
looked into that route when I was shopping because it is so cheap!
For IDE and parallel port support you might also look for a shareware.PD
program, there are some good ones out there!
One thought… if you can get AmigaDos to mount and recognize the IDE or
parallel port drives you could use TAR to do backups. Tar is available in
one of the libraries here!
Bill… on Autopilot in Womelsdorf 😉
Brian,
I have no idea on an answer for you … just wanted to say hi! My mother
lives right down the road from you (kinda) in Eunice.
-sja
Steve,
Really? You don't get much more south than that and stay in the U.S.
It's nice to know I'm not the last one left in this state. 🙂 Later.
-Brian-
Insert Generic Forum Signature Here!
(cause I really can't think of one right now)
Brian,
DAT is an industry standard for 4mm tapes. There are many vendors.
The current generation DAT drive stores 2 GB uncompressed / 4GB compressed
on a single tape.
8mm tapes are made by Exabyte. A number of companies resell the
Exabyte drive. Older 2.8 GB 8mm drive can be found cheap. These are
5 1/4 full height drives. The curent generation 8mm get 5 GB on a tape.
Both 4mm ( DAT ) and 8mm drives will work on the Amiga.
Steve Peters
Digital Equipment Corp. / Storage Systems Eng.
Dale,
What are you using for software for the tape backups? I have been
debating whether to get a Syquest or a SCSI tape system. What opinions do
you have on the subject?
Also, where do you get refurbished DAT drives? I obviously don't get the
right trade rags and mags….
//
Gary Vander Mei on Auto-Pilot \X/
I use AmiBack.
Cost per meg on Syquest is much higher than DAT, just like regular HDs.
Moonlighter used to sell refurb DATs. Now that AmiBack has been purchased
by Intellegent Designs (I think that's the right name), I assume they sell
refurb DATs bundled with AmiBack.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Dale I've been meaning to ask this question of you users who refer to an
Internet address with your name.
Are you on C-serve or calling in from the 'outside'?
Thanx, Zeddock
I could be telnet'ing in, but I'm not. I call CIS just like you do.
I just put my Internet address in because it is a more universal way to
reach me, more permanent, and is on my desktop rather than something I
have to call out to check. Of course, as often as I check in to CIS, the
later isn't much of an issue…
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Dale:
You can telnet into CIS? I didn't know this was available! What is the net
address of CIS?
// -Mike Schiller
\X/ AMIGA! On AutoPilot in sunny Fort Lauderdale
telnet compuserve.com
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Gary,
I used a Syquest for about 4 years to back up my HDs. The backup software
was called "copy" … ex., copy dh0:directory syq: all
-sja
Steve,
>>The backup software was called "copy" … ex., copy dh0:directory syq:
all<<
Yes I believe this correct for Syquest. Does this work for DAT drives as
well?
//
Gary Vander Mei on Auto-Pilot \X/
Gary,
I don't know about DAT. The point I was attempting to make (and badly, I
guess) is that with a Syquest or additional hard drives you don't need an
"backup" software over and above the AmigaDOS copy command.
I saw the other messages in this thread, but did you state where you got your
refurb DAT for $500? Are their differences between DATs? I've heard people
talk about "DDS", is that a different, less popular format?
(I've got an Exabyte now, but might want DAT for more compatible file exchange
with other platforms, seeming that DAT is eclipsing Exabyte 8mm.)
Currently all DAT ( 4mm ) drives follow the DDS standard. This allows
tapes to be exchanged between many DAT vendors drives.
Market reports have DAT drives selling about 2:1 to 8mm drives.
Steve Peters
Digital Equipment Corp / Storage Systems
No, I didn't say I got mine for that, I said they could be had for as
little as that if you'd put up with refurb 5.25 full-height. If you look
hard, a half-height refurb isn't much more than that.
I think that DDS is Digital Data Storage and are the tapes you use in DAT
drives. In otherwords, yes, I think that they're the same.
— Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
— INTERNET:dale@iam.com
Richard,
Check out the file EXTEXP.LHA in the library. It describes putting a bare
archive viper tape drive and a CD-ROM drive in to an external case.
I took a look at the file and its simuliar to what I have for my A1200. I
installed GVP's SCSI adapter with my A1230+ card and hooked up a
mini-tower case to it. I only have 1 harddrive in it now, but I can add
CDROM, a backup system and another harddrive as needed.
=Rick=