CompuServe Thread

#Key Factory Motion

29 messages in this thread
#161619From: steveMar 29, 1995 6:59 PM
To all: I've been using the New Imagine Key Factory from Schrieber. All I can say is that this module has saved me at least 20 hours of work over the past week. It is their version of a Dynamic Motion IPAS routine. This IPAS is so big it must have at least 30 screens with real time phong, gorourd and phong shading. It has exceptional collision dtection, friction, and drag , wind, implosion and explosion routines among many others. You can eaisly create key frames based on scale to show things like wobble, jitter based on collisions. COllisions can also trigger AXP events like fireworks and other particle IPAS routines. The different types of motion it can produce are random linear, true r randon, orbital motion, helical and brownian motion. I'd say this is the best IPAS routine Ive used (right up there with Bones Pro). I do don't work for Schrieber but I am truly impressed. I've had 50 balls bouncing inside a cube with no gravity, to show how gas molecules i interact. If I had to do this by hand for 250 frames it would have taken many hours. Anyway I though all of you should know about this I IPAS routine. BTW calculations can take awhile with a complex system. They even take in to account object embrace where objects appear to to stick to one another. Just too many options to describe.
#161633From: Mike KelleyMar 29, 1995 8:14 PM
Is this actually out? How much is it? Why haven't we heard more about this (I saw some short comments between individuals, but nothing official)? I hate to say this, but from what I've heard about the DMM, the KeyFactory sounds like it's much better. But then again, I don't know how the price compares (isn't price ALWAYS an object?).
#161639From: steveMar 29, 1995 9:16 PM
Mike, I paid half price because I'm a University employee, however the regualr pprice is $495.00. It's been out since last Thursday. I th think I was the first customer to purchase it because my manual is still a draft copy. I was told I will be recieving the final copy in a few days. The more I work with this IPAS module the more I like it. A must have! The Key factory does much more than work with collisions, it allows for many automatic settings of key frames, for things like object scali scaling and rotation. You can combine collisions with gravity, wind, scaling to rotation, and speed limits. Very very flexible. The m manual is almost 200 pages.
#161650From: M. G. BATCHELORMar 29, 1995 10:05 PM
PMJI, Your post was *very* interesting. I had heard the name Key Factory, but wasn't even sure if it was another name for DMM. Is Schreiber the only source ? Is there a demo version ? Do you know who developed it ? Have you encountered any shortcomings ? It sounds *too* good <g>. Thanks, BILL
#161686From: steveMar 30, 1995 5:51 AM
The Key Factory was written by Sergi Goluch. SO far it does what its supposed to do. Collision detection can even be calculated doen to th the face level of objects for very accurate interaction.
#161845From: M. G. BATCHELORMar 30, 1995 10:09 PM
Hi Steven, Thanks for the info.. Just to clarify, is the normal (non-student) price $495, or TWICE that ? Brent M. stated that: << is my understanding that you are limited to four separate settings for dynamic objects in Key Factory, which is extremely limiting. >> Can you confirm/deny this ? Does the s/w require a (#*@$&*@#) dongle <g> ? Why do you suppose there hasn't been that much talk about the program ? Thanks again. BILL
#162115From: steveApr 1, 1995 10:50 AM
The regular price is $495.00 as far as I know. You are not limited in that way at all. You can have 4 separate "SETS" of objects with each set containing as many objects as you want These sets allow you to keep track of objects interacting with other sets. For example you can avoid collisions with objects of one set and not the other. I see this as a very flexible system. Dynamic objects can have any combination of 11 classes of dynamic effects. That seems pretty "non-liniting" to me. Anyway, I love the IPAS routine and will be using it quite a bit. As I use it more I will probably see the need for one thing or another but not so far.
#162253From: M. G. BATCHELORApr 2, 1995 1:08 AM
Thanks a lot for the information Steven. BILL
#161656From: Mike KelleyMar 29, 1995 11:52 PM
>I paid half price because I'm a University employee, however the regualr pprice is >$495.00 Okay, well that settles it for me. I've made up my mind I'm not going to pay more than $500 for any add on for 3DS — not when upgrade costs for the whole program are less than that. So, I guess I'll lump Key Factory along with Pentello (ya know, I must not be alone, because I noticed recently that Pentello had to be discounted by 50% just to get people to try it). By the time the next release of DMM comes along I'm sure it will compete featurewise — and be priced so us mere mortals can afford it.
#161760From: David J. MarksMar 30, 1995 1:29 PM
>> $495.00… …I'm not going to pay more than $500 By my math it IS less than your price limit. <g> I fortunately am able to build the price of needed routines into the projects on which I'll use them. If I can save several hours effort, or create an effect that wasn't possible otherwise, the price is no object. OTOH, regardless of how neat/cool/useful a routine is, I won't buy it until I can use it on a project. That is why I am a strong supporter of non-save demo versions. I can try out routines, become familiar with the capabilities, and know exactly where to get what I need when a project comes up. (Thanks for letting me share my feelings.) – Dave
#161821From: Mike KelleyMar 30, 1995 7:31 PM
>> $495.00… …I'm not going to pay more than $500 >By my math it IS less than your price limit. <g> Nope, that was a special student price. The regular price is twice that (according to that student source — admittedly I haven't heard from anyone from the company selling it.) So, pricewise, my original objection stands. I just think anything over $500 is outright lunacy when it comes to an add on (unless it replaces completely one of the five major 3DS modules, I suppose — isn't $500 a module about right?)
#161841From: David J. MarksMar 30, 1995 9:59 PM
>> Nope, that was a special student price. The regular price is twice that. Re-read the original message. The reason for my toungue-in-cheek remark was that I figured you misread the letter. He said he got it for half the price which was listed at $495 (or something along those lines). The point is, it looks like you CAN afford it! – dave
#161668From: EDWARD HARVEYMar 30, 1995 1:08 AM
<<I paid half price because I'm a University employee, Does this mean that Schreiber has an educational or faculty discount? Thanks Ed
#161688From: steveMar 30, 1995 5:53 AM
Yes they have had the discont for a long time.
#161790From: EDWARD HARVEYMar 30, 1995 4:57 PM
Thanks
#161733From: Mike KelleyMar 30, 1995 11:09 AM
For some reason my WINCIM is having a terrible time with this thread. First it can't respond to it, and now it doesn't appear to be posting my messages properly. I'll give it another go. Thanks for the info. The price has convinced me that I'll forgo Key Factory — I'm not gonna pay more than $500 for any IPAS, when that's about what it costs to upgrade 3DS. I suspect I'm not alone — that's probably why Pentello cut their prices in half because no one was buying (no one lowers prices when people are buying!). Oh well, Key Factory's loss is probably KPT's gain (or perhaps the landscape generator — although I have bad feelings about price there as well).
#161664From: MARTIN G FOSTERMar 30, 1995 12:44 AM
Steven, key factory is really cool, I agree. I've had it for a couple of days and it's just amazing what it can do. It sounds like it does some things that Positron's dynamics doesn't handle – for example, friction.
#161693From: BRENT W. MALNACKMar 30, 1995 7:01 AM
Martin, Yes, we do not have friction in Dynamic Motion Module. However, it is my understanding that you are limited to four separate settings for dynamic objects in Key Factory, which is extremely limiting. If an object has to fall into four categories, try and imagine how to animate a billiard table. 1) The balls would likely have the same weight and elasticity. 2) The table surface would need its own characteristics. 3) The bumpers need their own characterisitics. 4) The back corner of the pockets would need their own setting to prevent the balls from launching back to the table. So far so good with Key Factory… now how about animating the pool stick to strike the cue ball. Whoops!, your out of characteristics…. Brent
#161768From: MARTIN G FOSTERMar 30, 1995 2:18 PM
Brent, >> However, it is my understanding that you are limited to four separate settings for dynamic objects in Key Factory, which is extremely limiting << I'll have to cede to your greater knowledge of the issues than mine. I've just barely scratched the surface of the tutorials with key factory and know little of its limitations. Maybe a rep from Schreiber can duke it out with you <g>. Since they were kind enough to send me a copy to evaluate, I'll need to spend a little more time with the tutorials before I talk about it much more. regards, Martin
#161779From: BRENT W. MALNACKMar 30, 1995 3:57 PM
Martin, Thanks. I'd appreciate that. It could be that I'm mistaken. I'm going by an article from Morph's Outpost by Dave Duberman, and a few of their testers. Brent
#161847From: M. G. BATCHELORMar 30, 1995 10:09 PM
HiYa Martin, I would be very interested in hearing your detailed opinions on Key Factory publicly, or in private, if you would be so kind. Regards, BILL
#161859From: MARTIN G FOSTERMar 31, 1995 12:57 AM
Bill, all I can say right now, is that it looks incredibly deep and powerful (10 layers of large dialogs). I haven't had a chance to analyze it thoroughly, though, so it's too early to tell. It has cool preview capabilities in 3 shading modes. I'll talk about it more when I have a chance to at least do all the tutorials.
#162046From: M. G. BATCHELORMar 31, 1995 11:41 PM
<< I'll talk about it more when I have a chance to at least do all the tutorials. >> Thanks, Martin. I'd really like to hear about it when you feel ready. Please keep me posted. Regards, BILL
#162137From: MARTIN G FOSTERApr 1, 1995 1:12 PM
Bill, re: key factory >> I'd really like to hear about it when you feel ready. Please keep me posted << will do.
#161789From: Tim Krego, [pro.image]Mar 30, 1995 4:47 PM
>>>Yes, we do not have friction in Dynamic Motion Module. However, it is my understanding that you are limited to four separate settings for dynamic objects in Key Factory, which is extremely limiting. If an object has to fall into four categories, try and imagine how to animate a billiard table.<<< Is it as limited as your package, which doesn't have it? How does you package handle friction? Do you have to simulate it? So far so good with Key Factory… now how about animating the pool stick to strike the cue ball.<<< Now you guys have some competition, not like those Newtons Law guys. Though I did hear they are planning on a 3DS version of Newtons Law after the Amiga version ships. (BG)
#161798From: BRENT W. MALNACKMar 30, 1995 5:06 PM
Tim, >>Now you guys have some competition, not like those Newtons Law guys. Though I did hear they are planning on a 3DS version of Newtons Law after the Amiga version ships. (BG) Tim, if you read an issue of VTU a few months back, the company that was making Newton's Law was being investigated by the Santa Barbara district attorney's office. Since that time, they have gone out of business. How they plan to do a 3D Studio version if they aren't around to finish the Amiga version is beyond me. We welcome Schreiber's competition. Brent
#161922From: Tim Krego, [pro.image]Mar 31, 1995 10:58 AM
>>>Tim, if you read an issue of VTU a few months back, the company that was making Newton's Law was being investigated by the Santa Barbara district attorney's office. Since that time, they have gone out of business. How they plan to do a 3D Studio version if they aren't around to finish the Amiga version is beyond me.<<< I was being sarcastic, which sometimes isn't apparent through email.
#161967From: BRENT W. MALNACKMar 31, 1995 2:49 PM
Tim, My apologies. That was a pretty sore subject. Cybernetica never shipped, yet charged an collected from a lot of people. Their ads for a nonexistent product, with an impressive feature list cost us a lot of money. So, any time I hear about them, I lose my mind. Thanks for clarifying things, and again, sorry for sounding like a caveman. Brent
#161797From: Gayle G de N, SAVANTESMar 30, 1995 5:02 PM
PMJI – as one who has has to do Brownian motion "by hand" (:-(, I'd sure love to get this on our budget. Gayle G de N