#R4 bug
16 messages in this thread
Will the NT version of 3ds run under windows 95 like microsoft nt versions of
their software. If not could you consider this a wishlist item.
<<Will the NT version of 3ds run under windows 95 like microsoft nt versions of
their software. If not could you consider this a wishlist item.>.
I am sorry, but we are not allowed to comment on Relase 5, other than to state
it will be an NT release.
-Brian
Wow, what a cryptic message. Still put it on the wishlist if that's okay.
Mums the word!
Considering that most Win 95 stuff will probably run under NT, but not vice
versa, I think you can draw some inferences as to why R5 is being spec'd as an
NT release and not as a Win 95 release. Besides, the best reasons for porting
to NT would be nullified with Win 95.
— James — Choreo Motion —
They could be specifying it as a NT product so that it supports faster
processors or multiprocessors. I can't think of any reason why it would be
made not to run under win95 since win95 puts less stringent requirements for
programs to run than NT does.
> win95 puts less stringent requirements for programs to run than NT does <
Precisely. The additional requirements levied by NT are paramount to
maximizing an application's operation under NT. While Autodesk has made no
claims to the following being an issue for R5, here are some instances where an
NT app could have advantages over an Win95 app:
1) Symetric Multi-Processing (SMP). The use of multiple processors on a
single machine for a purpose such as increasing the performance of a CPU
intensive applicaton by a rough factor of the number of CPUs. (Net-Rendering
without the Net!!)
2) Portability. The ability to port an application to various processor
platforms (big hint: DEC Alpha, MIPS, etc.).
3) Multi-threading. I don't know if a Win 95 app can multi-thread under NT
with any degree of efficiency, but a native NT app could certainly use this
feature. For example, press the Render View button and an new thread is
started to render the view. Meanwhile, you are returned to the UI to go about
work. An SMP system could assign this thread to the second processor so little
or no overhead is felt with respect to the app's responsivness.
4) Compatibility. One of NT's marketing features is its stability. A native
NT app would be rock solid using an NT driver (say for video). I doubt the
same is true for a Win 95 app under NT.
5) Networking. This, combined with the Compatibilty issue, is self
explanitory.
I'm sure a seasoned programmer like Gus Grubba could add extensively to this
list, but the point is that the native aspects of NT are what make it the
reason for switching OSs in the first place. Win95 is, basically, a beefed-up
Win 3.1, which would only serve to degrade performance.
— James — Choreo Motion —
I understand all the capabilities of NT, but my point is why limit the market
share that R5 would have if would be easy to make it backwards compatible with
Win 95 as Microsoft has done with their NT products.
>>>I understand all the capabilities of NT, but my point is why limit the
market share that R5 would have if would be easy to make it backwards
compatible with Win 95 as Microsoft has done with their NT products.<<<
I think MicroSoft would like to have everyone go to NT so they can dump all
that dos/16bit crap. The major stumbling point is that NT requires 8MB more
memory than Win95. Everyone knows that memory prices have not dropped as fast
as other components. I'm beginning to think the market is artificially
inflated. It must have something to do with that Micron lawsuit from a few
years back.
American companies were so protectant over RAM and LCD displays, but they have
gotten off their butts to create anything. I think they wanted protection so
they could sell at high prices to the gov/military, and we all know that costs
are being cut in the gov. so the defense industry is having problems.
>…is that NT requires 8MB more memory than Win95.
Last I looked, MS is saying that Win95 requires 8MB of RAM. Is that still
true?
If that's so, then NT requires 16MB more than Win95, because (the last time I
looked), my NT Performance Monitor told me that it was using 24MB just to put
up the program manager and the command shell.
The good news is that you get a tremendous amount of memory protection under
NT… infinitely more than under Win95. NT is VERY robust.
– G
>>>If that's so, then NT requires 16MB more than Win95, because (the last time
I looked), my NT Performance Monitor told me that it was using 24MB just to put
up the program manager and the command shell.<<<
MS says NT requires at least 12MB and Win95 needs 8MB. You pretty much have to
double what MS says. I have 32MB now which is OK at the moment, though I don't
run anything under NT that needs as many resources as 3DS does/will need.
>>>The good news is that you get a tremendous amount of memory protection under
NT… infinitely more than under Win95. NT is VERY robust.<<<
I'm all for progress, but the problem I have with NT is that it uses much more
memory for the OS than Windows and especially DOS. With 32MB 3DS is borderline
for me (under DOS), since DOS only needs 2-4MB for pharlap stuff. Under NT I
need another 8-12MB for the OS. I can see most 3DSR5 users needing at least
128MB when you consider they will be able to run more than one application
under NT.
I'm anxiously awaiting SIGGRAPH to find out what the scoop is. I anticipate a
P6/Alpha system with 256MB RAM as being the dream machine for R5. With R5 being
9 months away it is to long to predict what will be going on.
If we do see the Win95 UI for NT by years end I hope you guys will support it.
Along with OpenGL for when those hardware acclerated video cards become
cheaper. Add those to the wishlist.
Although MS says that you can run NT in 16MB, I'm sure that the system would
create a (close to) 8MB swap file in that case, since on my system NT uses 24MB
just to put up the program manager.
I've been wishing for less-expensive RAM for a looooong time.
– G
>> If that's so, then NT requires 16MB more than Win95, because (the last time
I looked), my NT Performance Monitor told me that it was using 24MB just to put
up the program manager and the command shell. <<
Is any of that base 24 MB of RAM going to be available to 3DSr5, or will
it be treated as being used by NT? It's weird to think of 32 MB of RAM only
giving a person 8 MB in 3DS…
Paul S.
On my machine, NT takes up 24MB of ram right out of the gate, and then 3DS
takes up another nMB's, depending upon what you're doing. At a minimum, 3DS is
going to take up another 6-8 just upon load, so you'll have to stuff 32MB of
RAM in your machine just to get up to nominal non-swapping performance.
(Pretty depressing, huh.)
The good news is that NT swaps so quickly, that it's not toooo painful.
(Depending upon what you're doing… it's lightyears ahead of Phar Lap's paging
schemes.)
– G
Gary,
You are kidding us, right? Is that really you?
"Last I looked"
"the last time I looked"
"24MB just to put up the program manager and the command shell"
"good news"
"amount of memory protection under NT"
"infinitely more than under Win95"
"very robust"
Boy, what a message 🙂
ana /krazy images
I just pinched myself, and discovered that (ouch) it's really me.
Yup,
– G
One thing I have come to understand about marketing in the last two years is
that the better a product or service is, the less important the means. I guess
it's the "Field of Dreams" phenomenon: If it's great, they will come.
From that, I can only surmise that the Yost Group and/or Autodesk have decided
that the best soil in which to grow 3DS is NT. Sometimes long-term decisions
seem illogical when viewed in a short-term context.
— James — Choreo Motion —