WorkVideo
19 messages in this thread
john,
I guess I sounded a little flippant in my message. I do not have a VCR
with a flying erase head, and already owning two, I don't want to buy
another just for that. This video I want to make need not be terribly
professional; only clear enough to make some points. It needs to include
pictures of rigging heavy objects into unusual locations, some examples of
mechanical work by electricians and sheetmetal workers, and some examples
of what my work on location will look like. Its main objective is to give
the customer an idea of what our installation work looks like, and to give
his contractors an idea of what is expected of them.
As I said, it could be a slide-show type presentation. I thought that
would get me around some of the problems I foresaw. Perhaps not. I did see
a video made only with DCTV. It was all animation but it seemed like the
perfect tool to grab pictures from video and move them to another tape.
Actual "real-time" video would be nice but not essential.
Using DCTV and a paint program I hoped I could draw in pointers,
suggested alternate ideas, and rudimantery titling. I had heard of a
program called Elan Performer that someone said would help put all this
together.
As far as voice over, I guess I'll have to cue that myself.
The musical part is less essential but since we are builders of pipe
organs it might be nice to include a few snippets of our work :-). This
obviously must be done on the lowest common denominator VHS, since thats
what most people have, so the sound quality will be necessarily poor.
For my own fun I'd like to make this as "cool" as possible but since this
is not a company sanctioned project I can't spend alot. For all I know they
won't even use it. If they do however, I have alot of other ideas. So this
is where my learning curve begins.
Thanks for your help, Vic.
No, not flippant at all. Just trying to figure out what you're doing. 🙂
W/O a flying erase VCR I fear that you will not be satisfied with the
results. Best way is to try it. I know that before I got a VCR with the
flying erase head controls I was unhappy with the video garbage at each new
section of the tape.
What happens to your tape when you are recording, hit pause, and then
release pause? Do you get garbage at the 'pause' point? If not, then
maybe you could have all the computer/video stuff ready for splicing, and
then do the entire tape in one 'take'? (ie. without ever bringing it out
of record mode; just use pause)
You'd still have the problem of dubbing the audio, unless you recorded that
as you went along. Couldn't have any dialog or music over a transition
point (pause point), but I guess it could be done. Unless your VCR is
capable of overdubbing the audio you'll have that problem no matter what
though.
W/O a genlock you are not going to be able to put any 'pointers', 'text',
etc over your live video. 🙁 Maybe you could show a still or anim of the
machinery, with the pointers/text, and then just show some live video of
the same machine (sans pointers/text)?
Good luck. It's certainly possible to create pretty da** good looking
tapes of the type you want w/o tons of video equip. Lot's of fun too! I'd
encourage you to try.
–jp–seattle–
John, hanks for all your suggetions. I'll do some experimenting and perhaps
I'll have a few more questions another time. 🙂
Vic.
I have just the vcr you need, if you are interested on spending a bit. Im
looking to sell a Panasonic AG-1830. It's a s-vhs with flying erase head.
You can do a freeze, pix inpix, solarize, pixelize, etc. It's in very good
condition. I'm not using it, since I'm using AG-7500's. If you are
interested, $450.00 and it's yours. I also have an audio mixer 6 inputs and
a video color corrector s-vhs for sale. both are like new in original
boxes. I always save them. send e-plex if you interested. george
You build pipe organs? I've always wanted a pipe organ of my very own…
<grin>
–>Steve Bennett
Wellllll, got a few hundred thousand lying around? We'd be happy to fulfill
your wildest dreams! Hmmmm, maybe we could barter. I build you an organ you
make me a video tape. Food for thougtt.
Vic.
Victor:
I made two training videos — one of them thirty minutes long — without
even having a VCR! The secret is this: rent time instead of buying the
equipment. Look up "Video Production" in your Yellow Pages, and call the
local Amiga dealer, to find editing suites that have an Amiga.
Then you'll be able to edit your live video, Amiga animations, etc., onto
a single master tape and dub audio over it later. Of course, you'd also be
able to do any overlays or titling you'd want to do. The cost would
probably be about $25 an hour, maybe a little more. If your tape is short
enough that might be the way to go. To edit it piece by piece without a
flying erase head would probably cost more than $25 an hour if a price
could be put on frustration and mental anguish! Plus it might look more
amateurish than you wanted.
Remember that if you save money and cut corners on quality, you might end
up with a tape that you don't even want to show to customers or clients!
-Roger
Hey Roger, not to pee on your parade, but $25 an Hr is not an average price
in most people's local area, (try $100) that's considerably more than just
a "little" bit. That's not to say that your idea isn't a very good one, I
agree that Vic ought to consider a small budget for off site editing, or
even renting an edit deck for a day. If he would think to ask his company
for a small budget of say $200-$500, he could afford to put something
together that would probably be a lot more respectable and effective than a
home brew job. He did at one time say that he was thinking of buying DCTV
to help out (That's almost $400 right there). Then again, with the
proliferation of Toaster, there might be many willing Toaster owners in his
are willing to rent their setup (and expertise) to him at very reasonable
rates, checking with his local Amiga dealer he might be able to obtain a
few names or at least post a note. I would think that anyone owning a
Toaster would almost certainly own a deck with a flying erase head.
Frank:
I should have mentioned that the $25 I quoted was for SuperVHS equipment
. . . anything else would of course be much more. But you're right about
suggesting he try Toaster owners in his area
. . when I read messages from people buying complete (but minimal) editing
equipment I think "Wow! I wished I could get my hands on that for a
weekend!" And, of course, I'd certainly be willing to pay for the
priviledge. On the other hand, the owners have just shelled out several
thousand dollars, and they're not eager to have someone pawing over it,
going "Shouldn't this wire be plugged in HERE??"
BZZZZZZZZTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!
-Roger
Hey Roger! good te hear back from you. I think you would find that in a
situation where you "rent" the Toaster/Edit system from the private owner
type, you would also end up with the owner as the operator at no extra
charge above the hourly fee. At least that's the way I operate with my
system. Since I know the ins and outs of my system so well, it can
significantly reduce the total time someone needs to use the system, and
two heads are always better than one when it comes to a project that needs
spicing up on the fly, not to mention the added security it gives me
against an inexperienced operator damaging something. The best thing in all
instances where you go "off site" to do your edits is to be as well
prepared as possible, documenting your edit points (creating an edit
decision list) pre-creating anims and organizing and graphics these
elements to coresponding paragraphs in your audio script (if you are going
to use a seperate audio track or narration). Our organ maker friend
probably has an interest in DTV but perhaps not the "Jones" that some of
the rest of us have developed. Maybe he'll be one of the lucky ones and be
spared the agony of the updrade syndrome.
I think if you publish the name of the place that rents S-VHS deck equiped
edit suit for $25/hour, there will be people buying airline tickets to get
there. I most places I've casually checked its $100 -$200/hour and that is
before you discuss the fee for the operator (some places won't leave you
inthe room alone!)
S-VHS edit deck, Industrial grade (i.e. JVC BRS 811/Panasonic AG7750) reent
for $100 a day, or $175 for a weekend. AG 1960's, if you don't need frame
accuracy, go about $40 – $50 a day and about $60 – $80 for a weekend.
Based on these numbers, I would have to question the $25/Hour number as far
as accuracy or availabel equipment.
wmc
Frank,
First of all, you don't know my boss. Cheap is an adjective that makes
him sound like a philanthropist. I'll go my own way until its done.
I did say I was considering DCTV. I guess the rational was that I kind of
want it anyway and my wife might let me get it if she thinks I'm using it
for something serious. :-).
Vic.
Roger,
Thanks for the advice. I didn't know it was possible to rent time
at a productione facility.
Vic
Vic,
You may be able to solve all of your problems with the yellow pages. In the
NYC area at least you could easily find a small post house with VHS editing
equipment and an amiga–do your graphics at home, bring a disk and the
video footage you need on tape (also lay your music down on a video tape).
In the NYC area there are plenty of places as low as $12 per hour. They
might charge you a bit to show how the equipment works, but it's not all
that complicated for what you're looking to do. Also–you'll get to learn
about editing and pro-equipment.
For what you want it shouldn't take more than 4 hours–much cheaper than a
genlock.
If you can't find a post-house check out the community colleges in your
area.
Bill.
Bill,
Thanks, I appreciate the advice.
Vic.
Bill,
Is the community access cable program a possibilty? I always felt uneasy
asking to start a "community project" that was really just home movies
being edited. Then just before showing to the coordinator just say "never
mind", and walk out with finished home project. How would a typical cable
company react to such a practice? Is it OK, not really fair, or just
outright dishonest.
Paul
–pt–not seattle– 😉
Paul,
I'm not very familiar with community access programs–in my area they're
not offered. Your best bet may be just to find out who's in charge of your
local program and level with him. Chances are, the equipment is just
sitting there underused they may jump at the chance to rent time on it for
a very low rate.
For my very first industrial I rented time at a facility that caters to
PBS, independents and schools. I paid $10/hour. If you know anybody in the
education field ask them. Most people I know who have ready access to
available equipment are somehow connected to education.
Bill.
Thanks, Bill. I'll do some more poking around and see what else is
availble.
Paul
–pt–not seattle– 😉
I work on the road and right now I happen to be in Bloomington IL. There is
a camera shop here with a video studio. They are starting a club soon which
I hear will include a $25.00 membership fee and $15.00/hr usage fee.Though
I am no expert the equipment looks quite adequate and I'm told the A500
will soon be replaced with an A2000 or 3000 (the guy I talked to was not
sure as he isn't the video man.) Anyway, those rates sound very reasonable.
Perhaps more retail stores should consider something like it.
Vic.