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AutoCAD to Amiga !
9 messages in this thread
John, I'm glad to hear that you've done these conversion programs already,
but I can't go along with "several hundred dollars". It's too bad that
AutoDesk feels you can't be taken seriously unless you charge ridiculous
prices – but what's even worse is that they might be correct (at least in
the IBM PC world). Your experience with them reinforces what I've been
saying about AutoCAD for the Amiga.
In the Amiga world, I think you'll have almost zero sales at anything like
those prices (but I could be wrong). Again I state my experience – LOTS of
engineers in our company have Amigas at home, but there isn't a single one
that is owned by the company. _Perhaps_ you'll sell copies of the program
to existing AutoCAD users or CAD managers who routinely buy a copy of
_any_ accessory program. If you want to sell it to me, charge the prices
you charge for the intra-Amiga stuff ($50 retail, plus extra for the
modules if they're good). Actually, I haven't really had the need (yet) to
do AutoCAD<–>Amiga conversions.
How about charging the Amiga price for a disk that runs on the Amiga only,
and anything you can get for the MS-DOS executable disk (or the MSDOS and
Amiga disks together). That way you could separate the products (and the
associated advertising, etc.). I could do everything I need with the
Amiga-executable only, because I'll transfer the files via modem or
equivalent. And people with A2000's and bridge cards can transfer that
way. But the primarily-IBM (i.e. primarily-AutoCAD) customers would tend to
want an IBM-executable version. Note also that the Amiga disk should still
have bidirectional transfer capability.
At the moment, I'm most interested in the HPGL to Aegis Draw Plus
converter, which can be one-way only because Aegis Draw already knows how
to make plot files. This will let me incorporate HPGL plots into
Professional Page documents. If the price is too high, though, I'll get
along without it or write my own.
Finally, I'd much rather see transfer capability among various Amiga
programs – XCAD, Aegis, SoftCircuits, UltraCAD whenever it comes out, etc.
– than the IBM to/from Amiga. Maybe this will be addressed some day by one
or more IFF formats, but I'm sure you'd have at least a one or two year
sales window before that happens. And just think – you won't have any
problems charging a low price, because they're Amiga-only! Joel
You _are_ wrong PCLO, which is a vertical CAD program, and it's bro,
PCLOplus, have sold quite well – even did so with initial retail prices of
$1000.00 per copy; Once our costs were taken care of, we dropped the
prices, as was appropriate, with an update policy for them who had bought
before – of course, as we dropped our prices, we inserted things into the
pricing structure that would add value to them that had paid the higher
prices. A high price does 2 things; it puts high expectations in the mind
of the potential user, no question about it. "If it costs THAT much, it
MUST be good" (or I'll scream to high heaven, implied).
THe other thing it does is gives the program supplied room to support the
user in a solid way, without taking a bath. WP is a good example. Costs to
them (my estimate) are about 16$ for materials. All the rest makes lot's of
room for support, ads, development, etc. And users SHOULD have to pay for
that – it's good for the user that the company does these things. On the
other hand (In my opinion, WP isn't worth diddly, but that's another
thread) a low cost product, that performs well, doesn't require much from
the company to support cuz it WORKS and is documented well, can be a lower
cost – but you have to be SURE that you won't be tied in knots with
support. –Ben–
I'm not sure that because you can find lots of customers for major CAD
packages at $1000, that it follows that John will be successful with his
DXF converter at several hundred (apparently $200 or so being a laughably
low price). But then again, I'm not sure he won't be successful. I just
replied to him pointing out that it's his choice. In a lot of ways, I hope
that he can be very successful at the high price – it means there are more
corporate customers for Amiga CAD than I thought there were.
You and John should both understand that I am not asking for unreasonable
sacrifices on your part, or for a free lunch. There are excellent programs
selling for $50 that represent a great deal of work on the part of the
author(s). There are also excellent packages selling for $1000 on the
Amiga, and some for $10,000 on other personal computers. Both pricing
strategies can be very successful if approached intelligently, and neither
one is more moral or immoral than the other.
Should Commodore price the Amiga 2000 like the Mac II, even assuming that
they could then satisfy _most_ of your complaints about the way they do
technical things? Maybe so, but then I wouldn't be a customer, and neither
would the vast majority of the present customers. They hit the market that
they hit. So did you. So do I, in a different business. So what are we
arguing about? I suspect nothing.
If CBM priced the Amiga like the Mac II, and somehow created the software
base that the Mac has, then a ZILLION of the gripes we hear day in and day
out on this forum would GO AWAY. "Advertise!" the gripers say. Where does
Apple get the money to advertise? "Support dealers!" the gripers say.
Where does Apple get the money to support dealers, in the form of nice
margins and real in-person support? You want one, you must have the other.
Ask CBM why they don't advertise. They don't have the money.
So we come back to what I said in the first place: you want software you
can use in your business, but you want it at a discount, as compared to
what it costs to support professional tools. I say that's not possible.
Sure, I'd love it if I could buy AutoCAD for $50, but it's not possible.
What does this mean for the Amiga? It's a consumer machine, with a K-Mart
price, and arguably K-Mart quality.
If CBM priced the Amiga like the Mac II, and somehow created the software
base that the Mac has, then a ZILLION of the gripes we hear day in and day
out on this forum would GO AWAY. "Advertise!" the gripers say. Where does
Apple get the money to advertise? "Support dealers!" the gripers say.
Where does Apple get the money to support dealers, in the form of nice
margins and real in-person support? You want one, you must have the other.
Ask CBM why they don't advertise. They don't have the money.
So we come back to what I said in the first place: you want software you
can use in your business, but you want it at a discount, as compared to
what it costs to support professional tools. I say that's not possible.
Sure, I'd love it if I could buy AutoCAD for $50, but it's not possible.
What does this mean for the Amiga? It's a consumer machine, with a K-Mart
price, and arguably K-Mart quality.
I'm not sure that because you can find lots of customers for major CAD
packages at $1000, that it follows that John will be successful with his
DXF converter at several hundred (apparently $200 or so being a laughably
low price). But then again, I'm not sure he won't be successful. I just
replied to him pointing out that it's his choice. In a lot of ways, I hope
that he can be very successful at the high price – it means there are more
corporate customers for Amiga CAD than I thought there were.
You and John should both understand that I am not asking for unreasonable
sacrifices on your part, or for a free lunch. There are excellent programs
selling for $50 that represent a great deal of work on the part of the
author(s). There are also excellent packages selling for $1000 on the
Amiga, and some for $10,000 on other personal computers. Both pricing
strategies can be very successful if approached intelligently, and neither
one is more moral or immoral than the other.
Should Commodore price the Amiga 2000 like the Mac II, even assuming that
they could then satisfy _most_ of your complaints about the way they do
technical things? Maybe so, but then I wouldn't be a customer, and neither
would the vast majority of the present customers. They hit the market that
they hit. So did you. So do I, in a different business. So what are we
arguing about? I suspect nothing.
You _are_ wrong PCLO, which is a vertical CAD program, and it's bro,
PCLOplus, have sold quite well – even did so with initial retail prices of
$1000.00 per copy; Once our costs were taken care of, we dropped the
prices, as was appropriate, with an update policy for them who had bought
before – of course, as we dropped our prices, we inserted things into the
pricing structure that would add value to them that had paid the higher
prices. A high price does 2 things; it puts high expectations in the mind
of the potential user, no question about it. "If it costs THAT much, it
MUST be good" (or I'll scream to high heaven, implied).
THe other thing it does is gives the program supplied room to support the
user in a solid way, without taking a bath. WP is a good example. Costs to
them (my estimate) are about 16$ for materials. All the rest makes lot's of
room for support, ads, development, etc. And users SHOULD have to pay for
that – it's good for the user that the company does these things. On the
other hand (In my opinion, WP isn't worth diddly, but that's another
thread) a low cost product, that performs well, doesn't require much from
the company to support cuz it WORKS and is documented well, can be a lower
cost – but you have to be SURE that you won't be tied in knots with
support. –Ben–