#Games and Gender
13 messages in this thread
Mayhaps we should stop viewing the cup as half-empty and start viewing it
as half-full? instead of wanting LESS male oriented goals… how about
having MORE female oriented goals? You bash Defender of the Crown most
eloquently… but how could you expect a female character to go rescue a
male character of medieval England? Part of the fabled code of chivalry was
the rescuing of damsels in distress. Defender wasn't just a fantasy game
with a medieval setting either, so there's no magic to act as an equalizer.
If an oil painter likes painting nudes, would you insist that he start
painting fewer nudes and more landscapes? If he told you to push off, he'd
be perfectly justified. If you want landscapes painted, pick up a brush,
don't go hanging inappropriate and stereotypical labels on people.
That is all I was asking for. Someone asked me for my input as to what I
liked in a game. I told them. Suddenly, half a dozen males start
screaming, "Are you asking for genderless bookstores, a genderless society?
Are we going to allow ourselves to be neutered just because there are a few
outspoken women in the forum." I watched all of this scrolling up my
screen, and mused in amazement. My God, and they say WOMEN get
over-emotional about issues! And the one comment about "favorable raping"
was a bit much. C'mon. But rather than sit and debate about such things
in this forum, let's \ just get back to the issue at hand, shall we?
_WHO_ says "women get over-emotional about issues"? Stick around here a
bit and learn the truth………..or wander over to AmigaTech and assert
that "X" is the best (editor | language | compiler) and watch _real_
emotion <smmiiille>.
Vic, that's another non-issue! 'over-emotional' is a relative term.
Relative to the people involved, and relative to the given situation.
–Eet–
Vic;
I have read some of the replies to your message. I literally cringe at the
idea of answering a request for an opinion about (editor | language |
compiler) knowing full well that many of the responses will be emotional.
Having watch (and shamelessly participated) in many of them over the years
….. well you are right <grin>.
=>73<=, bill =>KB7LX @ K4IWW<=
You don't think Viking (males) would have looked favorably upon rape? I
don't think there was any fear amongst us males that we would be neutered
because of the existance of outspoken females… I, for one, was mildly
amused, bemused, and irritated at the idea that males that wrote games with
themes that interested themselves or a paticular target audience (oftimes
both), were doing something 'wrong', and that gamewrights should _stop_
writing for said audience (or themselves) because nobody's writing for
another audience (females). Getting back to the point, one issue I brought
up was the idea of a male in female form. If males and females are the same
(in a game), with same abilities, strengths, weaknesses, what does it
matter _what_ the imagery depicting the character is? If, on the other
hand, you _do_ have different strengths, weaknesses (oh, and goals,
possibly), then not only will having both sexes represented enhance the
immediate gameplay, it will provide a longer life for the game, and it
introduces even further possibilities. Aliens who can't breath
nitrogen/oxygen, but can throw a mid-sized auto, or see in the dark.
Mechanicals who can't initiate action but can store and retrieve any
observation they've ever made. –Eet–
Skip it. You apparently don't understand the brief point I was trying to
make. Some of the other men did. It was only one small suggestion I was
trying to make, in a long line of other suggestions that I would really
like to get to–IF PEOPLE WOULD DROP THE SUBJECT AND GO ON TO OTHER ISSUES.
There will be no further replies to this line of thought.
Amen!
As for the rape remark you refer to, it made me just want to give up in
disgust! Its too serious a topic to use in jest :-(. I'm sorry if you
thought I was picking on you when I mentioned the parallel difficulties
between writing a gender-neutral game and a gender-neutral book. I hope
you've had a chance by this time to read the message I've left for you
concerning a new direction for this game. I believe it might embody the
best of all worlds! Perhaps you have made me aware of the female audience
that needs to be addressed in the CRPG market. Please don't think I'm
sexist, I simply wasn't conscious of the need. There really is a
difference.
I hope this has cleared up a few things, and we can get back to talking
about the details of the game. 🙂
Marcus – ever hopeful
Nothing, NOTHING in this world is too serious to be taken in jest. I
consider the idea of rape for myself (as happens in prisons) a horrifying
idea, as I do the rape of a woman. However, if a couple of women who
happened to be somewhat attractive decided to rape me, I would _indeed_ sit
back and enjoy it as the joke suggests. That's my personal position, taken
for personal reasons, and it might not even be true, I won't know til it
happens. In the meantime, I get a lot of chuckles out of the thought of a
couple women trying to rape me. (oops, make that attractive women :). _Can_
a woman share this unique point of view? I really don't know.
–Eet–
Jim,
The very definition of "RAPE" precludes you sitting backand enjoying it.
"Against your will" is the operative phrase, and it ain't funny.
…Dave
I agree entirely.
Marcus
Maybe we should stop arguing about how full the cup is, and decide what
it's full of… Don't you think the whole idea of Defender of the Crow(n)
is a bit inane? Let's see, take over other people's land, then "rescue"
damsels who've been told that they'll never amount to anything, then rack
'em up like trophy deer, on little plaques on the totals screen. Sounds
real bright to me. Where's the intelligence, the depth of these games?
How can someone whine about inane CBM advertisements, then rush out to buy
games like this?
I've noticed that about the Amiga game market. Trying to find a game with
any intelligence in any of the local stores is an exercise in frustration.
It took me three stores before I was able to find Omega(which is something
like C-robots). None of them stock anything requiring thought.
John