#HOTTEST 3.0 LW BOX
33 messages in this thread
OK, I'll turn to the knowledge of wonderful folk here in the NT Forum
for some straight poop and not dealer hype…
What is going to be the best setup for doing Lightwave 3.0 animations?
I've seen various theories since NAB (Gawd, it's been 7 years since I
had a chance to get fried at an NAB ;-> )
What platform will yield best LW 3.0 performance? A2000 + '040 accel?
I've heard nasty stuff 'bout A4000 LW actually performance being
slower???
Bottom line: OK, I get the S/W upgrade (to get LW 3.0), then what do I
get? A '040 accel for my(/formerly one of James Hebert's) A2000HDs?
Do I want the T4000 board upgrade for LW animation???
(BTW this is a production business application for the Toaster– LW
anims and such)
Trying to save $$ and phone calls to track down old friends in
Topeka, Luke (Pat) Montgomery CompVid, Kansas City
Your best bet is an A4000Tower and Toaster 4000 board.
-Jonathan
Both A4000T and T4000 are in late Beta stage of development, and I'm
not sure I'd go with either as an initial purchase. Would definately
like to u/g to this though the performance doesn't seem to be there
yet.
Hopefully my A2000 040 Toaster sys will still be the Best for LW 3.0
performance. But I'm mainly into Rendering speed and I'd like to wait
a while for 'THE' Full motion video device to appear, who ever makes
it.
Toasters NEED lot of slots, Newtek and CBM could almost give away
A2000's with purchase of Toaster 4000. Not a bad Idea !
I've also been thinking about the 4000T. Is it as slow as Lee says
the regular 4000 is (and what are CPU upgrade options?) Is there any
word on when the 4000T will get FCC approval and actually ship? How
many slots will be left free with the Toaster installed?
The Toaster 4000 got FCC approval 2 months ago…they are just
finishing the software….
Not the VT4000, the 4000T (I can't say Tower, someone from C= at WOCA
told me it's a trademark of a certain other company). Although after
seeing your last post, I may wait until that SCSI/ram/faster '040
card comes out from (GVP?) someone. (In fact, if it is GVP, I may
wait even longer, I'm not at all pleased in general with their using
proprietary SIMMs, although the overall performance of their stuff is
quite good.)
BTW, I'm sure you and John and some other beta'ers have put together
some Modeler macros (and maybe even other ARexx scripts) that would
be helpful to us comparative tyros. Will these be included when
LW3.0 ships, and if not, might you UL some here for all to see,
admire, and maybe even use? (For some reasons, I actually _want_ the
Haiku macro after you mentioned it at WOCA – now if I could integrate
that with the automatic text creation and let the computer write
_and_ render poetry…)
Lin, The Haiku macro is easy enough to recreate. It was based on an
arexx haiku program that already exists.
I heard it has two video slots, 5 Zorro IIIs (probably on in line
with each Video slot) and four PC/AT slots (probably two in line with
Zorro slots a la A2000) and internal bays space for 5 devices. I
have'nt heard if it is SCSI/Ethernet on the motherboard, or requires
seperate controllers (thus taking up Zorro slots :^{
BTW, this is all based on hearsay from the non-active showing at WOCA that
some freinds saw. I tried getting info from Commodore express, but they
never heard of the 4000 tower.
wmc – via Autopilot!
If you are only into LW, you could get by getting a 2000 and a FAST
accelerator. However you would not have realtime playback. The
interface is a bit nicer on the 4000 also. I would recommend getting
a 4000/030 and waiting for the fast 040 cards for the 4000. That
should pretty much blow away the 040's for the 2000/3000.
THANKS FOR YOUR REPL:Y!
>>The interface is a bit nicer on the 4000 also
I confess, I'm a bit muddled… you mean the INTERFACE is actually different
when you run toaster 3.0 on a 4000 than you run it on a 2000+040?? or did I
misread you message?
I must furtther confess ignorance: the 4000 comes in different CPU flavors?
(shades of the PC world… ackk! pffft!) 4000/030 ? isn't an 040 the whole
point of the 4000?? Heeeelllp!!!
I guess I'm looking for direction on the best route to take: My
company does animations (i.e. Lightwave) currently on an A2000HD with
a 50MHz GPV 030 board + a Sony EVO9650 SFR. Obviously, LW performance
is a prime cosideration. But, of course, so is $$$ overhead for
equipment! (When is it
not 😉 ???)
So, thus far, I read:
1) Upgrade to Toaster/ LW 3.0
2) Consider either:
a) Upgrade to a 50MHz 040 accel for the A2000 card or,
b) Buy as whole new platform: 4000/030 and then get
an 040 card later (how much later??)
Whatcha think? Or should I just shut up and wait for the next VTU? :->
Best regards,
Pat
LW interface is slightly different. On the 4000, there will be some
additional colors for selection purposes.
There will eventually be a 4000 with an 030. and then, it's just a matter
of time before a company will come out with a faster 040 for the 4000.
I suggest whatever you can do to get the fastest system. You'll have
to talk to a dealer to see what availability on speed.
If you mean you will have different colors for selected
points/polygons/objects I don't see why you'd need a 4000. The old
Videoscape modeler used to get by with 4 (?) colors. I'd think 16
colors would be enough for LightWave. Of course on a 4000 the screen
wouldn't flicker.
As for the 4000 with an 030, they're already available. Here in
Vancouver Canada a 4000/040 is $3600 CDN and a 4000/030 is $2100 CDN.
I've been thinking of getting one if GVP or Progressive comes out
with a 33mhz 040 card that will fit into it.
It's because LW and Modeler went overscan and added another bitplane
for additional colors. (They use 4 grayscale colors now) This slows
redraw down too much on a 2000, so the software automatically
recognizes that it is on a 2000, and will only use the four colors.
Have you seen the 4000 Toaster in the 4000 box? Some non-newtekites
told me that it covers the slots adjacent to the video slot too, thus
leaving only two slots left. I called NewTek Sales and they were not
sure if theat was true or not. I'm trying to find out before teh
A4000 and A4000/30 prices go up in a few days. Three slots left over
would do it for me, but two would mean I'd have to wait for the
Tower.
wmc – via Autopilot!
It's true – you effectively are left with 2 slots. Some companies are
coming out with slot expansion stuff, however.
Lee, I saw the DC Slotbox at NAB but it they had n o price so I expect
it to be while before its out. It is all moot now anyhow. I didn't
move on the 4000 and the price goes up $700 on Monday so I'll be
waiting to see if there is any truth to the persistent rumors of a
CBM/NewTek joint upgrade package. Or the 4000Tower…
Yes I have and yes it does. Commodore, in their infinite wisdom moved
the video slot to the bottom of the daughterboard and the Toaster
being approx the same size as before covers the video slot and the
slot above.
John, Thanks for the confirmation. Let's see, Toaster, Y/C-Plus,
Amilink Card and I have no slots left, no serial port or parallel
port (Amilink dongle, don't ya know). Pretty much makes the 4000
only useful as a dedicated switcher/edit controller. Darn! Guess
I'll waioot for the tower… :^{
wmc – via Autopilot!
I know it can be a pain having to wait for the A4000T, but it's well
worth it! I bit the bullet until CBM released the A3000T and it has
enormous room to work with and upgrade.
The wait isn't bothering me as I have issues to resolve on increased
hard drive size and customer project archiving. (Debating between 1
gig fixed or 1 gig removable for the former and 128 me MO and 20 meg
floptical for the latter.) I'm more concerned that the 4000T price
will be really "CBM-ish" as in make no sense vis-a-vis competeing
machines and technological worth. For example, they might decide to
price it a $5500 list. Then I'll kick myself for not having bought a
4000 cheaper (I understand it went up $700 today) and added the
Digital Creations slot boxc for the Toaster, Y/C-Plus and AmiLink.
Then I'd have all slots (except the video slot) for the extra
serial/parallel ports, ehternet and SCSI controller.
Wayne-
Do you know if the 4000T's 2 video slots mean you can run a Toaster and
IV-24 at the same time. Are there any limitations that you know of?
I too am waiting for the T and am also concerned about CBM blowing it with
the price. Remember the 3000T, ridiculous.
–Paul < Motorola Inside >
Paul,
The 4000 doesn't have 2 video slots. It has 4 zorro 3 slots and 1 video
slot in line with one of the zorro slots. (like the 3000)
I think the 2 slot reference you may bwe thinking of is that when you
install a Toaster in a 4000 is uses the video slot and covers the slot in
line with it. The Toaster also hangs off to one side of the video slot and
blocks access to the zorro slot next to it. This leaves you with 2 usable
zorro slots. Add a dual TBC so you can use VCR inputs and a SCSI 2
controller so you can use CD-ROM's or removable media (Syquest, ect) and
you have NO slots left.
As for the 4000T, I expect it to be priced just as ridiculous as the
3000T.
Did you know that just turning a 2000 on it's side so it stands
uprightmakes it worth hundreds more? ;^)
I think he was referring to the A4000T (tower).
Vance – Flying on vapours…
The 4000T is supposed to have 2 video slots? That should make for some
interesting results from software that only expects to find one device in
the video slot. (All software)
Jeff, you are WRONG! Paul was referring to the 4000T (Tower) it has
SCSI-II and *TWO* video slots!
-Jonathan
Jeff-
No, the 4000T does indeed have two video slots, honest! The fax CBM sent
me said "details to follow". They said you could pick each one, does that
mean to plug in by hand? Duh. Not a good answer 🙂
I ordered my Toaster 3.0 software for $675 and it not here yet, my breath
is baited.
–Paul < Motorola Inside >
Paul,
I wonder if that means you could pick and run one or the other, but not
both at the same time? That is better than exchanging video boards, now
would you go for Toaster/OpalVision or Toaster/Brilliance or Toaster/???
?
Joe Maulucci >>> AP ENGAGED
Jeff,
Sorry, but the prototype 4000T I saw at WOA in NYC had two video
slots…almost. One was present, the other was a screen on the
motherboard. However, I believe that the unit shown in Germany at CeBit
had two video slots installed.
I could imagine having two slots, with either one being functional at one
time, with software control. This would appeal greatly to power users
IMO. Of course, if *both* could be active at the same time…I could just
imagine teaming an Opal and a Toaster.
//Jonathan,
\\//via AutoPilot
Paul, As I Understand it the two Video slots would support two
differnt cards. I'm puzzled how that could happen, though, without
some OS support. BUt Heifner, Diital Creations and AmigaMan are all
working on multi-video slot boxes too, so there must be some hooks in
place to make it feasible.
wmc – via Autopilot!
Well, I wouldn't be suprised if the A4000T were overpriced, since it is
the preferred machine to use with the T4000. We can only hope otherwise.
Vance – Flying on vapours…
>>>However you would not have realtime playback.<<<
mmmhh..is this really true?? Or is it just that you can't get real time
AGA playback. What I'm wondering is..can u get real time 3 plane DCTV playback
mebbe?? I have a 2000/040/33Mhz w/ on-board SCSI-II and it's FAST! As a self
confessed speed merchant, should I get rid of it in favour of a 4000T+040 or in
reality will speed be pretty much the same and AGA be the only difference?
It's all very puzzling. SK.
As far as I know, the 4000's bus speed is also partially responsible for
the realtime playback.
JG
Pat:
I just installed GVP's '040 33MHz combo. According to AIBB version 5.5, all
of the benchmark tests show this setup as faster than an A4000-25MHz. HOWEVER,
each of the graphics intensive tests show the A4000 to be faster. So go
figure. BTW, I'm using A2000's.
The other thing to consider is that it likely won't be very long before 3rd
party manufacturers release accelerators for the 4000.
There's no doubt that the 2000 will be supported by NewTek and others
for a very long time, since most of the 85,000 installed Toasters out
there now are running in 2000's. And there's also little doubt that
if CBM's and NewTek's new cooperative marketing strategy works, AGA
based machines will be the way of the future. I think NewTek and CBM
have done a great job so far in making the Toaster and various Amigas
compatible.
IMHO, the cooperative marketing announcement (again, if it works) will
wipe out any other desktop-based video systems soon, and take on the
big boys after that. Unless of course IBMs get (a) real bus
architechture (b)15KHz video timing (c)workable multitasking
(d)cheaper (e)marketing deals with AutoDesk, etc… 🙂