CompuServe Thread

#Sierra Bashes Peter

55 messages in this thread
#101583From: Peter M. D'AngeloMay 26, 1993 11:22 PM
All, Here is a rather heated response to my question of weather Sierra will support AGA Amigas. I guess they are tired of us asking. Firs read my message then decide if Josho was right to launch a full attack on me.
#101635From: James GreenMay 27, 1993 6:05 AM
Peter, I wouldn't take the post too personally. Actually he hit the nail on the head. He does sound a little bitter (maybe he was burned one too many times). It's a shame that they are dropping the Amiga, even though their games were IBM "ports," their childrens learning software (mixed-up mothergoose, etc) was some of the best. Alan Henry
#101659From: Josho/SOLMay 27, 1993 11:30 AM
James, Gee, how could you tell I was burned one too many times? <g> We didn't want to drop Amiga support…we kept it going a long, long time. But the stakes in the computer game industry have gotten steeper: there are a lot more companies producing games, and yet the market did not grow at all in 1992. So there's a lot more competition for the same number of dollars. That's forced a lot of unpleasant decisions — we laid of 10% of our staff just a few months ago, and other game companies have made much LARGER layoffs — and we can only support those platforms that show the most potential for profit. I'm not sure why Peter takes that personally. –Josh
#101902From: Wayne ColeMay 29, 1993 1:29 AM
Josh, As far as I can tell there is only one flight sim still being priduced for the Amiga (Fighter Duel). Too bad you couldn't have kept A10 going…:>{ wmc – via Autopilot!
#101941From: Josho/SOLMay 29, 1993 12:09 PM
Wayne, Interesting thing, because A-10 is an OLD game by flight sim standards. It was first released in 1988 or 1989, well before Sierra purchased Dynamix. Holds up pretty well, though. Damon Slye has come a long way. –Josho
#101657From: Josho/SOLMay 27, 1993 11:18 AM
Peter, I'm sorry if you feel I was "bashing" you. I don't think I was, and I don't see anything vindictive in my response. (I am a BIT disturbed that the private response I sent to your letter was posted publically; had I wanted it posted publically, I would have done so. In the future, I hope you can respect that a private post should remain private unless you get permission from the sender. And I didn't mean to bash Amiga, either. Amiga was *my* first choice of computers when I started computing. But the decision Sierra made was one of practicality, and I'm relieved that others can see that as well. We truly did hold out as long as we could, when most others were dropping support, and we continued our support for years after others had already dropped it. I assure you that Ken's decision to drop Amiga support was neither a fast nor an easy one, but I maintain that it was, business-wise, a necessary one. –Josh
#101673From: Erik FlomMay 27, 1993 2:24 PM
As an Amiga owner for five years, and one who uses the Amiga 10-16 hours a day in a business setting, I have to admit that Sierra's decision was indeed probably the best one, given the reasons you cited. Your personal reply to Peter seemed quite balanced and honest – as opposed to the diatribes of those who refuse to look beyond their 'computer of choice'. I am sorry to see Sierra leave the Amiga arena. (I loved Rise of the Dragon, and just wish I had an AGA mode of it. :^( ['You know what really bothers me? . . .It's all those IBM games that keep getting ported to the Amiga, don't they know what the Amiga's capable of?' – Andy Rooney] :^) Oh well, keep up the good work. Maybe if the Amiga can hold out for a few more years, you guys might come back. (Yeah, and monkeys might . . .:^) Erik Flom
#101710From: Josho/SOLMay 27, 1993 9:03 PM
Erik, No, no, it's not a "yeah, and monkeys might fly…" situation. Truly, it isn't. As I've mentioned in the last message I just posted, Sierra at one time stopped supporting the Mac because of a lack of consumer sales. We recommenced Mac support a year or two later when sales of Macs went way up (after Apple introduced all the low-end models). So it COULD happen. Thanks for your patience and understanding. As someone who designs games for Sierra, I would only stand to gain from support of a wider array of systems. I don't think we'll ever be releasing 800x600x262K-color games on FLOPPY for the Amiga, but who knows…any low-priced Amiga CD-ROM in the works that you know of? It might change everything. –Josh
#101723From: Erik FlomMay 27, 1993 9:53 PM
My comment was merely the jaundiced feelings of a long-time Amiga owner. I was unaware that Sierra dropped, then later resumed development of Mac games. It's almost enough to give me hope. Naah, I know C= will do its best to keep vital tools like a system standard CD-ROM driver from coming to market. And marketing? (hah, a lost cause!) Glad to hear you're not averse to developing for the Amiga, should Sierra decide to pick up support of the Amiga again. :^) Erik Flom P.S. Got any cool CD-ROMS coming out soon? (Like in the Laura Bow series.) My girlfriend just ordered a Toshiba 3401 CD-ROM drive, and I used my Sprint-Sierra free game coupon for a copy of Willy Beamish on CD. I'm looking forward to checking it out. I've heard good things about just plain old Willy Beamish, so here's hoping the CD adds more than just a soundtrack?
#101812From: Josho/SOLMay 28, 1993 10:30 AM
Erik, WILLY BEAMISH has gotten both lumps and accolades, depending on which magazines you read. <g> Proceed thusly advised! I'm working on the CD version of FREDDY PHARKAS, FRONTIER PHARMACIST — it should be ready late July or thereabouts, provided we decide not to throw in the kitchen sink like we did with KQ6-CD (which should be released any day now, and stars Robby Benson — the BEAST of Disney's BEAUTY & THE BEAST — as Alexander, the lead character. We went to town on this CD and it should be fabulous. KQ6 is a VERY good game by itself, and got great reviews, and since we spared no expense on the CD, expect a lot of good things. –Josho
#101867From: Erik FlomMay 28, 1993 7:37 PM
That's right . . . I remember seeing a news-story about that awhile back, and they were showing Robby record some of his lines. I look forward to both KQ6 & FREDDY PHARKAS! Wanna give us a hint as to what kind of game FREDDY PHARKAS is going to be? (Arcade, strategy, FRP, interactive movie, etc.) Thanks, Erik Flom
#101934From: Josho/SOLMay 29, 1993 11:41 AM
Erik, FREDDY PHARKAS, FRONTIER PHARMACIST, which is already out on floppy, is a codesign between Al "Leisure Suit Larry" Lowe and myself. It's the first Computer Western, a slightly ribald, definitely silly Old West adventure about a gunslinger from the East who gives it all up for his love of Pharmacology. <g> –Josho
#101980From: Erik FlomMay 29, 1993 3:57 PM
Thanks for the info. I've worked for Epyx, SSI, and Spectrum HoloByte, but I just don't follow games that closely anymore. (Something about being a game tester for several years in the early part of my career seems to have tempered my ability/interest in computer games. :^) Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom
#101988From: Mark D. ManesMay 29, 1993 5:23 PM
Erik, I wonder if you had to work under the conditions that the US Commodore operation had to run under, could you do a better job? If so–how? There is no amount of marketing in the world that would have stopped the PC onslaught. -mark= Otto Pilot Engaged..
#102033From: Erik FlomMay 29, 1993 11:40 PM
Yeah, I'd agree with that too. The guy that convinced ME to buy my first Amiga is now one of Bill Gate's millionare employees. (Over 2000 millionares at the comapny, last I heard.) I think the Amiga could have done FAR better if they had come out with their products about 1-2 years ahead of the actual release date. If they had done this about the time the 2500 was released, they'd be in a much more competitive situation. (Whether that was feasible is another story.) It IS too bad that C= is hurting, but at least they've has sold another 4000. I'm going to be upgrading to the Toaster 4000. Had NewTek not supported the AGA chipset, my next computer purchase was DEFINITELY going to be a Mac, or IBM. Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom
#102315From: Brian CowanMay 31, 1993 7:08 PM
> Naah, I know C= will do its best to keep vital tools like a system > standard CD-ROM driver from coming to market. Well, they _did_ license ARexx. They _did_ succeed in getting the RDB and SCSI-direct command set adopted. So they do have some good ideas…. // Brian — Cruising on AutoPilot….. \X/
#102332From: Erik FlomMay 31, 1993 9:09 PM
I know, I shouldn't be too bitter, but I just see things like peer-to-peer networking and SCSI CD-ROM std drivers on the Mac, and get frustrated. I still like my 3000, and will be buying a 4000 this month. Thanks, Erik Flom
#101903From: Wayne ColeMay 29, 1993 1:29 AM
Josh, I think what Erik was problably implying is that for the AMiga to take advantage of the "entropy rise" in the OS market, CBM has got to actually get out and sell the machine, which means treating developers right, building a dealer network, training dealers, treating dealers right… THATs what's going to require the monkies to buy computers… :^} wmc – via Autopilot!
#101942From: Josho/SOLMay 29, 1993 12:10 PM
Wayne, I definitely agree. Much of the difficulty I think publishers have had in the past is CBM's track record of supporting their own machines, from a marketing standpoint. Trouble is, CBM now has a history of blowing smoke, so developers are doubly wary of CBM whenever CBM promises a new push, a new breakthrough system, a new ad campaign, whatever. It's a self-perpetuating problem, one that will only be solved when CBM actually does break through with something. I don't know if anyone would agree with this, but I've had a theory for years about what CBM did wrong initially. When the Amiga came on the market, MS-DOS was not yet a common *household* computer (it was still primarily an office system; EGA was still very expensive and there was a severe lack of household utilities and games for MS-DOS). The Apple II+/e/c and the C64 were definitely on their way out; the Mac was going nowhere and neither was the IIgs. If Commodore had positioned the Amiga as, primarily, a GAME/HOUSEHOLD computer, they could have stolen the niche that had previously been filled by the C64 and Apple II. Instead, they positioned the Amiga as a powerful graphics workstation and all-around system…which isn't something most users are interested in. The "all-around system" position is so vague and mushy that nobody knew what to think. And then, of course, there were distribution problems, since CBM didn't want the thing in toy stores. Instead of getting an Amiga, American users bought MS-DOS machines and Nintendos instead to fill the same need that the C64 used to fill. The "GAME/HOUSEHOLD" position is exactly the position CBM took in the UK, for some reason. And it succeeded in a major way there. Most home users in the UK don't have videogame machines and don't have MS-DOS machines; they have an Amiga to take the place of both. That's why the Amiga is the top-selling computer in the UK, and has been for a long time. It was a clear, easy-to-understand position. Had they taken the same position with the US market, they might've passed the 5 million mark four years ago. –Josh
#101947From: ANGEL PAGANMay 29, 1993 12:31 PM
Josh, You've hit the nail on the head! When I bought my Amiga 500 a couple of years ago, I felt that I was getting the ultimate resource/entertainment tool I could for the buck. It didn't take long for me to see that productivity software was scarce, but from a general user's point of view it was still better and easier to use than anything out for the MSDOS machines. Games for the Amiga were quite popular at the local Software Etc, and there was a great deal to choose from. The trend however has been to promote the Amiga as a multi media machine, and in fact item like New Tek's Video Toaster has helped it earn a small niche for itself. That's okay for video jocks willing to fork over $2,000 + for a toaster system, but what about the casual user who wants to run a few applications at home and play the current games? The answer isn't with the Amiga, so I went out and got a 486SX, and cursed CBM for abandoning users like me. How long can the Amiga survive, in a recessed economy with software publishers competing for user dollars? No too long, especially if software chains like Software Etc. have dropped support and dealers are umpteen miles away from the user base, forcing them to shop mail order and thus adding another nail to the coffin because Amiga dealers will be going out of business. It's a catch 22. It was with a little sadness that I gave up my beloved Amiga, but a helluva a lot more bitterness. \\ ===>>> Angel Pagan <<<===//
#101991From: Josho/SOLMay 29, 1993 7:55 PM
Angel, I was hoping that it was only my local Software ETC. (local, well…50 miles away, but to the area Sierra's in, that's local) that was liquidating its stock of Amiga games, but I guess not, given what you've said. It's a little staggering that CBM has survived this long. Back when I was looking to buy an Amiga as my first home computer back in 1986, CBM was desperately fending off bankruptcy by trying to get third-part loans to support itself. Somehow, they've held on for a long time, but I agree with you: in this economy, it's going to be tougher than ever. Thanks to a small-but-mighty clan of Amiga devotees, there'll be support for at least a good while yet, but you ask a good question when you ask how long they can continue. –Josh
#101995From: ANGEL PAGANMay 29, 1993 8:16 PM
Josh, I made the painful switch to MSDOS recently, for me the the future seems to be SVGA, not AGA. What Sierra has to remember is the many users who supported the Amiga versions of their products, because they become potential customers once they enter the world of MSDOS. What if any, is Sierra's policy regarding platform upgrades? I have a few Amiga titles (A10, Red Baron) that I would love to get MSDOS version of. As for the liguidating of stock, why are there so many Sierra titles priced in this discard heap any way? <g> I see now why Sierra and other game publishers have to cover their losses by discontinuing support at the expense of leaving loyal users bitter. You're absolutely right about CBM. It's continuing existence defies the laws of business as we know it. IMHO the Amiga would be dead if it wasn't for these three companies: 1)New Tek (and we all know how well they get along with CBM <g> 2) GVP (Mediocrity and poor customer support) and 3) Centuar, who I can't say anything negative about. \\ ===>>> Angel Pagan <<<===//
#102058From: Josho/SOLMay 30, 1993 1:51 AM
Angel, I'm not positive what the upgrade path is from one system to another, but it's definitely worth checking out. If you're interested in following up, Chris/Sierra On-Line 76004,2143 (EMail or GAMAPUB) would be familiar with the details. What did Centuar produce?? –Josh
#102149From: ANGEL PAGANMay 30, 1993 7:05 PM
Josh, Centuar makes Opal vison, a 32 bit video board that has sold like hotcakes at many Amiga shows. They compete in the same Video Toaster market once dominated by New Tek. \\ ===>>> Angel Pagan <<<===//
#102284From: MARCUS GASSERMay 31, 1993 4:01 PM
Also in Germany/Switzerland the Amiga was sold as "GAME" machine. Now most of these Gamers changed to MS-DOS and we have big trouble to get rid of the "Game-Console-with-floppy-drive" image. In these days, if we have had 640 x 400 flicker-free graphics and some good productivity-software, I think, many of the PC's, Ataris and MACs now installed in offices would instead be Amigas… Another problem we had/have here in Europe is software piracy. Sum of this: The Amiga was not accepted as business computer, lack of good graphics (4096 colors were nice, but the interlace-flicker was the killer) and lack of productivity software. Software was not developed because lack of sales. The same thing with games. May be that 4 million Amigas are sold here in Europe, but when on 100 installed Games only 1 was purchased, then I dont wonder why there are no more new games for the amiga. MARCUS Flying on AMIGA with MOTOROLA 68030 inside and AutoPilot engaged
#102346From: Josho/SOLMay 31, 1993 11:07 PM
Marcus, Perhaps that also explains the Amiga's slow decline in the UK as well. I've heard rumors for years that piracy was worse for one platform than another; i.e. that piracy on the Atari ST was worse than piracy on the PC, and that piracy on the Amiga was worse than piracy on the PC as well. I've tended not to believe this, because I know how much piracy there is in the MS-DOS world, and it's hard to imagine it being MORE rampant on any system than it is on MS-DOS systems. Could it be a regional problem rather than a platform problem? For example, I recall hearing (this was years ago) that Korea and Israel had the worst piracy problems on ALL systems, basically because of poor distribution of the legitimate flavors of software. I can't understand why the owners of ONE system would be more predisposed to pirate software than the owners of ANOTHER system. I wanna say, "It's only hardware, it's not a state of mind," but maybe that's naive…
#102362From: Karl F. KugelJun 1, 1993 1:39 AM
Josh, I had heard the piracy on the ST was far worse than on any other system. Bad enough, in fact, that it killed software development for that platform. I do know that one of our Amiga user group members attended an ST user group some years ago, back when there still were ST user groups. He reported the entire meeting was a giant software copying session. It was literally ALL they did. I think it was an "Atari user thing", as piracy was particularly bad for the 8-bit Arari as well.
#102474From: Josho/SOLJun 1, 1993 10:04 PM
Karl, I suppose if software supplies dried up enough for a particular system, peoples' scruples about copying would tend to vanish. Perhaps that's exactly what happened to the ST. And age probably has something to do with it, too — a system that appeals more to children is going to have a tougher time appealing to their sense of morality. If Nintendo software came on writeable disks rather than cartridges, I'm sure there'd be tens of millions of pirated MARIO BROTHERS games floating around. 🙁 –Josh
#102628From: IAIN WHITEHEAD.Jun 2, 1993 6:02 PM
MARCUS, You are certainly right about the software piracy problem. It is still very blatent here in Scotland. At the local `barras' market in Glasgow there are at least four vendors dealing in pirated AMIGA games and all of them do a roaring trade, with large numbers of people waiting in line. They have been `raided' onb numerous occasions by the police but are usually up and operating again the next week. Amazing and quite unbelievable! Early on in the AMIGA's history they used to sell professional software, like ProPage or ProDraw V1 for roughly 10 pounds. That is a considerable saving on the commercial price – but lethal for the company's concerned. And vast numbers of the games being produced at the time. These days they only stock games and do not seem to deal in professional software – at least not openly. I think if one was to ask, however, they would supply it. Recently a vendor was complaining about problems he was having with the ADpro software and was taking in a lot of returned disks from people. It was costing him money. I have talked a lot of my workmates – almpost a dozen into buying AMIGAS and all of them buy the games software from such sources and further swop among themselves these same purchases. Recently they came to me for help in fixing problems some of them were having in getting their computer to work properly. You know what it was? Viruses, There must have been dozens and dozens of infected disks. My contribution to the copy disk activity is to give them all copies of virus killer, which is available on PD. Promiscuous games purchasing from fundamentally unhealthy sources can do serious damage I think. I have not bought a pirated program in years now. If a serious virus ripped through my hard drive now I'd go crazy. It ain't worth the risk and it is also bad for the commercial AMIGA community. IAIN. IAIN.
#102314From: Brian CowanMay 31, 1993 7:08 PM
> Thanks for your patience and understanding. As someone who designs > games for Sierra, I would only stand to gain from support of a wider > array of systems. I don't think we'll ever be releasing > 800x600x262K-color games on FLOPPY for the Amiga, but who knows…any > low-priced Amiga CD-ROM in the works that you know of? It might change > everything. Let's assume an A1200 user wants a CD-ROM drive. Since he only the standard 2MB in the machine, he'll need a RAM expansion anyway (Especially since it will mean an 100% increase in system speed!). So we are looking for a SCSI/RAM solution. GVP A1200 SCSI/RAM+ w/ 4MB ~~ $550.00 (Based off a posted price in a TENEX ad.) Chinon 425 Series Ext CD-ROM ~~ $459.00 (NCA Peripherials in Sunnyvale,CA) CD-ROM Drivers (AsimWare) ~~ 67.00 (estimated street price) ————————————— Total 1076.00 (eeps!) The biggest "problem" with Amiga CD-ROM usage is that you MUST use SCSI CD-ROMs. This effectively doubles the price of the drive. Never mind the cost of the controller, but this should come down as competition, and larger A1200 sales, exert downward pressure on the controller prices. A Sony proprietary CD-Rom system for PC's is $219 (Sony 31a w/o demo CD-Roms). The Amiga may never reach this price point unles C= cuts one heck of a deal with Chinon (who, as many know, manufacture all C='s HD floppy disk drives). Here's a thought, taken from IBM's OS/2 2.1 upgrade deal — if the user wants floppies, he pays a premium for them. IBM OS/2 2.1 will sell for $30 LESS is you take it as a CD-ROM.
#102348From: Josho/SOLMay 31, 1993 11:07 PM
Yowch. So you're depending on TWO technologies to decrease in price, each of which much become popular enough to drive down prices, before Amiga CD-ROM can become affordable enough to become commonplace? Seems like CBM may be putting itself at a disadvantage by preventing competition among third-party peripheral suppliers. Or are they afraid of havoc?
#102756From: Brian CowanJun 3, 1993 5:58 PM
Of the two technologies — SCSI CD-ROMs and Amiga Controllers. Both are bound to come down. The new Macs — to my knowledge — still have SCSI ports as standard equipment. A couple of the IBM sound cards now implement SCSI interfaces for CD-ROM drives because users cursed them for forcing them to buy one manufacturer's drives. (The Sound Blaster Pro uses a Mitsumi CD-ROM interface for example.) Since SCSI CD-ROM drives can be used on Amiga's Macs, and PC-Clones, their prices are bound to come down. A1200 SCSI controllers — well let's see. GVP makes one, ICD and IVS are coming out with them. Microbotics can't be too far behind. Three or Four companies are going to be trying to sell them to a fairly large A1200 marketplace. C='s 1200 sales show no signs of slowing down anytime soon, so the possible market is getting larger, not smaller. So, let's see: we have 1200's selling like hotcakes, so lots of people will be wanting to upgrade them in the future. We also have three or four companies in the US alone looking seriously at the 1200 expansion market. This equates to downward price pressure no matter whose economic theories you subscribe to.
#102894From: Steve AhlstromJun 4, 1993 1:56 PM
Brian, "…1200 sales show no signs of slowing down anytime soon…" I don't know if that is accurate in the US. I've spoken with 3 dealers in various geographical locations in the US and all say 1200 sales have almost died but 4000 sales have dramatically increased (ie., my dealer is now selling 4000s 3 to 1 over 1200s). -sja
#102963From: Karl F. KugelJun 5, 1993 12:11 PM
I'm not surprised that the sales of the 4000 are up- the '030 is cheap enough that it is competitive with an accelerated 1200. And it is an obviously superior machine.
#102965From: Steve AhlstromJun 5, 1993 12:22 PM
Karl, When I referenced the 4000 I meant the A4000/040. My dealer is selling more 1200s than the A4000/EC030.
#103073From: Karl F. KugelJun 7, 1993 12:15 AM
Interesting. I guess the U.S. really *is* a power-user's market. <g> // -Karl \X/ Amiga and Autopilot: The *only* way to fly!
#103164From: Brian CowanJun 7, 1993 8:08 PM
I'll have to check with my dealer, but I think he still has trouble keeping them stocked. I'd be the first to say that I wish I had a 4000, but not until after I get the 3000 paid off! I can see the 1200 slowing down, I just didn't expect it to happen so quickly. The 4000/030 may have had something to do with this, it's probably under many people's "max comfortable price" point. If I had my 3000 paid off, I would have bought it instead of my 1200. As is stands, I'm wishing there was a "real" network I could get the 1200 on. A PCMCIA Ethernet card would let me use the 3000's drives on the 1200 without too much mucking about. The 3000 would make a great "File Server" on an Amiga LAN… // Brian — Cruising on AutoPilot….. \X/
#102420From: SyndesisJun 1, 1993 12:32 PM
I'd counter that you could get a perfectly useful Toshiba 3201 (two models back from the 3401 they sell now) for about $250. It slips into your A2000's 5 1/4 drive bay. Connect it to your SCSI adapter, buy the $50 Xetec driver and presto, you've got CDROM for $300. What you're really saying is that it's expensive to expand an A1200. Or that it's expensive and dangerous to develop an Amiga-oriented expansion card and hope to make a profit. I'm sure someone could make a PC-like bare bones interface to one of these non-SCSI CDROMs, but they'd be risking a lot: the price of the Amiga expansion card, changes in el cheapo CD technology, etc. SCSI is more useful and less expensive in the long run.
#102758From: Brian CowanJun 3, 1993 5:59 PM
> I'd counter that you could get a perfectly useful Toshiba 3201 (two > models back from the 3401 they sell now) for about $250. It slips into > your A2000's 5 1/4 drive bay. Connect it to your SCSI adapter, buy the > $50 Xetec driver and presto, you've got CDROM for $300. 1 – I wasn't referring to A2000 expansion. The initial question was about adding CD-ROM capability to an AGA Amiga. I picked the 1200 because, well, I have a 1200. An internal solutiion will not, of course, work in a 1200. 2 – Not many people would know enough to look back a couple of model numbers for a less expensive drive. Unless they bought the drivers FIRST and looked at the list of supported drives. Something I admit I should have done. I'd be in better shape with this drive now… Non-SCSI CD-ROMs shouldn't be used on any system. What would happen if the company that made the CD-ROM suddenly decided that their CD-ROM line was no longer profitable? I'll bet one of the reasons that the non-SCSI units are so inexpensive is that the companies involved know you're stuck with their stuff. So they WILL get expansion business…. // Brian — Cruising on AutoPilot….. \X/
#102856From: SyndesisJun 4, 1993 8:58 AM
Yes, but as I said elsewhere in this thread, buying an A1200 necessarily limited your expansion options. That has nothing to do with CDROMs. Perhaps you should cut your losses immediately: dump the A1200 while the price is hot, then buy an A4000.
#102868From: Brian CowanJun 4, 1993 11:43 AM
If I could have afforded a 4000, I would have bought one. I'm still paying off the 3000! // Brian — Cruising on AutoPilot….. \X/
#101686From: Peter M. D'AngeloMay 27, 1993 2:52 PM
Josh, I have to admit that sometimes I see only what I want to see. Your post was private and that's the way I should have left it. Your company has the right to develop on whatever platform it chooses. I on the other hand should not have used the words "very poor decision". With the market the way it is and with the loses that Sierra has incurred it was probably the wisest decision. I AM SORRY for turning it around and giving it to you. I just don't want to admit that we Amiga users may have already lost. I hate my PC and all I use it for is to play games. If only CBM had did their job. In the future I will refrain from reposting private messages. I am sorry and I do see your point. Guess I'll just have to settle for playing them on my PC. Peter M. D'Angelo
#101711From: Josho/SOLMay 27, 1993 9:03 PM
Peter, I know that one's choice of computer is (strangely) a personal and sometimes sensitive matter. I should have been more sensitive to what was, I'm sure, a message motivated by your pride in your system and your desire to see it prosper. And I admit to being bitter(!) about my experiences with CBM, which I won't go into. But don't hate your PC! Just treat it as you would treat a slightly addled relative that you keep up in the attic. It CAN be a source of amusement. –Josh
#102002From: Mr. ChalleronMay 29, 1993 9:22 PM
> slightly-addled relative that you keep up in the attic < Gee, that's what my family's been trying to do to ME ever since I bought this A4000!
#101736From: Paul HigginbottomMay 27, 1993 10:59 PM
> I hate my PC and all I use it for is to play games. "Hating" a computer is a bit odd, isn't it? Clearly you enjoy the PC when you're playing games on it so it can't be that awful. Clearly MS-DOS is junk compared to AmigaDOS, but it's best to just accept a computer as it is, and not what you want it to be. PC's are like pickup trucks. Not great transportation, not pretty, but utilitarian and pretty useful. You can get them in many flavors including ones that go like a bat out of hell. Hmmm… what does that make the Amiga in the car analogy? Clearly it gets good mileage <g>, it's elegantly designed under the hood, but it lacks some options and is terribly marketed. Volkswagon?
#101904From: Wayne ColeMay 29, 1993 1:29 AM
The analogy killer is that people don't buy pickup trucks 'cause seats and radios for 'em are easy to steal. People DO buy PC's cause its so easy to steal/share software. wmc – via Autopilot!
#101957From: Black Belt SystemsMay 29, 1993 12:53 PM
Paul, I'm not so sure it's all that odd. People spend a lot of money and a lot of time learing a machine. They do it based on the premise that the time and money they spend will benefit them in the end; surely they have other options as to how and where they could spend it. In the course of this, someone starts the ball rolling by telling them why the Amiga is "good". Then they use it, and maybe they find out it is, or it isn't, based on their needs and how well the computer fills them. IN the end though, they still spend the time and the money. When someone comes out the other end of an expenditure like that and has what they consider to be "not enough" to show for it, only the most philosophical of users will be able to avoid emotion – for time and money are two currencies most difficult hard to regain once spent, eh? It's not a fra step from bad feelings to blame, either – and CBM is the likely target. I think the Amiga's probably comparable to something like a euro-supercar. You can't find a dealer; you can't find a service center; the users are very much a "club"; the machine itself is very high performance; you can't get "options" (software); and you darn near have to send the car to europe to get it serviced. Oh yeah… and people usually drop their jaws when they see one go by exhibiting the top levels of performance it's capable of. :^) –Ben …via AutoPilot
#102004From: Mr. ChalleronMay 29, 1993 9:22 PM
Yeah, and when you add everything necessary to use it professionally, it costs nearly as much as a Ferrari…. 😉
#102191From: Black Belt SystemsMay 31, 1993 12:22 AM
I missed that part. :^) –Ben …via AutoPilot
#102036From: Paul HigginbottomMay 29, 1993 11:54 PM
I guess I've become "philosophical", then. While I certainly find differences between the various computers I've used/use, and I've certainly invested huge amounts of time and money over the years, I still have never hated a particular computer. I have fun with 'em all! There's definitely something unique about the Amiga market, though. The user passion is high, the manufacturer is certainly "different", and the product is certainly unique. Regards, Paul.
#102211From: John DraperMay 31, 1993 1:49 AM
I consider myself fortunate to be able to completely ignore the IBM compatible machines, their operating systems, and their application software. I can do everything I need or want to do, and do it well, with my Amiga. Essentially, I can afford to be choosy and to ignore mediocrity. -larry
#102629From: IAIN WHITEHEAD.Jun 2, 1993 6:02 PM
LARRY, Well said and perfectly true. I would also think the one big advantage of AMIGA software as compared to PC software are the prices with good, solid AMIGA programs generally being a lot cheaper than the PC similars. IAIN.
#102003From: Mr. ChalleronMay 29, 1993 9:22 PM
> good mileage, elegant . . . under the hood, but . . .< If you include "pragmatic-but-odd functionality" and "people laugh at the way it looks", you're describing Subaru (and I own one of THEM, too).
#102038From: Paul HigginbottomMay 29, 1993 11:58 PM
Hehe – I actually considered Subaru – and I own one also! Subaru's certainly had it's share of troubles too. They've bet the farm on the Impreza it looks like. I'm reasonably interested in an SVX for my next car, actually.
#102209From: John DraperMay 31, 1993 1:42 AM
I did not consider the respnse to be an 'attack'. Nor did I consider it 'heated'. -larry