#Shapeshifter
25 messages in this thread
Has anybody here gotten Shapeshifter working. I have everything, and everytime
I boot up with the 7.5 Disk Tools disk I get a 'bus error'. I have created a
filedisk of 50 MB, and have tried all the other tips by the author. Can anyone
else help please.
Kenny Green
The Problem with the rat race is that even if you win you're still a rat.
Kenny,
two days ago I got my copy of Shapeshifter to work… if you have access to a
MAC (Quadra) , make a HD-Floppy (MAC-Format) with a System-Folder, and copy the
Files 'System' and 'Finder' from the Quadra. With this disk you should be able
to 'Initialize' at least the filedisk. For the further installation you may
skip the Disk Tools.
Harry with AP (from Germany)
Hi there,
I actually have it working now. I called the BBS number listed in the
Shapeshifter guide, and the sysop allowed me to dl the latest ver (2.0e?) of
the software, and I am up and running. First impressions, great. System 7.5
running, and even though I am using a filedisk the speed is pretty reasonable
(a3000/picasso). This looks like it could wipe the floor with Emplant.
Kenny Green
The Problem with the rat race is that even if you win you're still a rat.
>This looks like it could wipe the floor with Emplant.
Well. . . not if Jim's lawyers are sucessful. Jim says that over 30% of
Shapeshifter's code is lifted byte for byte from Emplant and other parts of it
are identical to code written for Amax. If fact over on GENIE it was stated
that there is even code lifted from Apple, including an Apple copywright notice
in Shapeshifter!
His lawyers ARE pursuing the matter. If all this is true I would not expect
long term support of this program.
…Warp Engine Engaged…
-Paul-
Is there patenting of code now. JD probably is sueing, but that does not make
SS unusable. Hey the Amiga has been in the same state for a year. And some
Emplant users would prob like the functionality that I will have for 40 bucks.
I don't operate on wat might happen, and afer all the coments I've seen, ther
is nothing conclusive that says I should drop it.
ARen't some Emplant users bitter that a supposed hack is easier/and better to
run than something that is giving them so much grief, and that Jim Drew who has
been quiet for long periods, is suddenly everywhere posting messages about SS.
Ther is no doubt that JD has contributed to the rich tapestry of Amiga
products, but he has been renumerated substantially, and has been rewarded with
patience from peole who had no choice. Now they do have choice Jim Drew is
blowing acorns. Hell **** it, I will use SS til it is defintely certified as
being in breach of something, and I'll keep on using it.
If we go on this thread, remember Apple suing Xerox for 'look and feel' after
Xerox invented the Damn WIMP (The Star). I am not getting angry at you BTW so
please interpret my comments as the frustration at companies/individuals who
throw up smokescreens when a better product appears.
Kenny Green
The Problem with the rat race is that even if you win you're still a rat.
Kenny,
>Is there patenting of code now
As far as I know, no. But it is usually copyrighted.
>JD has contributed to the rich tapestry of Amiga products, but he has
>been renumerated substantially, and has been rewarded with patience
>from peole who had no choice
Still doesn't make it right to steal his work and sell it as thier own, if
thats the case.
But I hope they didn't and SS is all of thier own creation.
-Marty
>Is there patenting of code now (?)
Patent, I don't know, but copyright yes.
>ARen't some Emplant users bitter that a supposed hack is easier/and better to
run than something that is giving them so much grief (?)
What grief? I have been using the Emplant MAC emulation for over two years
without a single problem. The money I'ved saved in income taxes by being able
to use Quicken has more than payed for my Emplant. My wife uses a MAC 630
upstairs and having Emplant on my 4000 makes sharing files with her a snap. We
can even connect via Appletalk. Then there was the fun I had with the Myst CD –
wow!
ONLY the new PC emulation has teething problems. It was obviously released too
early. Since I am in no hurry to dive into the "wonderful" world of Windoz I'll
just wait until it is sorted out.
IMO comparing Shapeshifters MAC emulation to Emplant's PC emulation is
worthless. How about some compatibility and performance between the two MAC
emulations?
> Jim Drew who has been quiet for long periods, is suddenly everywhere posting
messages about SS.
I don't know. . .If I felt someone stole something of mine I might be
"suddenly everywhere posting messages about" it.
>If we go on this thread, remember Apple suing Xerox for 'look and feel' after
Xerox invented the Damn WIMP
I think there is quite a difference between "Look & Feel" and lifting code
byte for byte (and if the information is correct even leaving in the copyright
notices embedded in the code).
>Hell **** it, I will use SS til it is defintely certified as being in breach
of something, and I'll keep on using it.
Do you really mean that? If you found out that for sure SS was in effect
stollen property you would have no qualms about using it anyway?
>BTW so please interpret my comments as the frustration at
companies/individuals who throw up smokescreens when a better product appears.
What makes it better? (On the MAC, not PC, side)
…Warp Engine Engaged…
-Paul-
>Is there patenting of code now (?)
In the US, it's possible to patent code, but this is not true in some other
countries. It hink the question here is about copyright, however.
I have heard German publishers claim (after making knockoff copies of software
from North America) that software copyrights are not enforceable in Germany. I
don't know if this is true or not, but the parties involved at the time did NOT
pursue copyright infringement action (they beefed a lot to anyone who would
listen, but no legal action).
–Jim
And you believe everything that Jim Drew tells you, right? Like the 586 module
able to run Doom, and being as fast as a 486PC? And from what I understand, the
only reason the Apple copyright notice is in ShapeShifter is that some software
looks for this version string for specific operations. So the code is not
actually in there, just the version string. How do you copyright a version
string?
Genie is Jim Drew's haven and I'm sure the BS has been flying pretty well over
there, that's one of the reasons I dropped Genie a long time ago <g>. I have a
hard time believeing anything that Jim Drew says anymore. You remember about
the old story about the boy who cried "Wolf" too many times?
I can't say for certain one way or the other who is right or wrong, but until
Jim proves conclusively that ShapeShifter is a ripoff of his code, either in a
court of law or otherwise, I'll continue to use ShapeShifter. It's more
compatable, runs better, and is a lot nicer to use than the Emplant.
If it is proven at some time in the future that ShapeShifter is stolen code,
then I'll send a message to Jim appologizing for my comments and get on with
using Emplant again. But somehow I get the feeling that I will never have to
send that message.
// John (Warp 4040 & Emplant Quadra 840)
\X/ Mercury@ins.infonet.net
John,
I hope you noticed that I prefaced my comments with IF SS PROVES TO BE STOLEN
PROPERTY. I was surprised when one poster stated he would continue using SS
even if that were the case.
I'll ask again. What makes the SS MAC emulation better than Emplant? What runs
on SS and not Emplant? How about performance comparisons? How does SS emulated
the MAC's two serial ports and scsi port without hardware? How do you hook up
the SS emulation to another MAC or MAC compatible printer via Appletalk? . . .
…Warp Engine Engaged…
-Paul-
Hi there,
just stepping in with some info. Wuicken 5 for one works on SS and does not
work on Emplant. I have my Oracle Mac tools (including beta Power Object
running on there as well). I don`t know the dynamics needless to say I have
MAcCIM working a treat as well as Netscape through MAcPPP. On my a3000 with 18
mb ram/Picasso/Filedisk (until I receive registered ver), it feels like a
Mac iiCi upward. In fact certain things like MAccim surprise me with the speed.
I just picked up a page with the latest SS info on there, and it gives you a
guide
(pre 2.0k which has just been released) as to what is working with what config.
the page is on http://yar.cs.wisc.edu/~innuendo/amiga/ss.html.
See ya
Ah, that's the question: I have a partition on my IDE HD of my A4000 set aside
for SS,but can't figure out how I'm supposed to format it since I haven't got
the Mac OS installed yet. The docs seem to indicate you use HDToolbox, but
HDToolbox doesn't recognize my IDE partitions, only my SCSI HD in hd2:
Are you registered yet, as SS has scsi/ide mounting disabled as default.
Kenny Green
The Problem with the rat race is that even if you win you're still a rat.
No, I'm not registered,but I'd like to know if it'll work BEFORE I send my $$
off (?and before UU sues him?).
Even if Jim Drew Sues him, the software will work. It is a great bit of
software, and litigation aside it looks worth it. Frankly I don't give a toss
whether Jim Drew sues. Have a look at Amigavendor/comp.amiga.emulations and you
will see the amount of grief emplant/e586dx users have had to put up with.
Now a new product comes out which looks more stable than his, is cheap, and is
threatening his user base. If he does sue and win, yes, then I will probably
have to retract, but in the meantime take these threats as a normal reaction of
someone who can see his market being undercut, and is trying to scare people
like you from making a straightforward decision (and its working).
Hell, $40 is something but compared to Emplant prices / plus having to wait for
Jim Drew to come online to get support (which is more reasonable if you're
paying 40 bucks for the product), well… pardon my cynicism. I have nothing
against JD but this is business.
Kenny Green
The Problem with the rat race is that even if you win you're still a rat.
Well, of course, SS only promises Mac II emulation (apparently with any
Amiga,even an '040) and it only does Mac. Emplant's Mac emulation seems pretty
well done at this point, and it flexible enough t do other platforms. And $300
isn't that much for what it does. I agree, though, that like a lot of talented
engineers (or other creative people) Drew gets ahead of himself.
Re SS again: I guess I have to re-read the docs again: it looks like you copy
the program to a partition,run it, then format that partition as a Mac
partition. I may be a relative novice,but doesn't that wipe out the program?
Well it promises emulation at the speed of a Mac IIci etc with an a3000, if
however you have an 060 model then zoom you're certainly better than a quadra
900. Mac II emulation is a basic standard, the faster your processor the better
the spec it emulates. Read the docs again. You can do as I did. In the filedisk
box you need to create a file (mine is a 100 mb file) on your partition which
the mac will use as a volume. This is somewhat slower than a hd but for testing
out the product is great. be careful with the figure you put in that box
because if you overstate it, it will fill your hd. (that's no prob anyway, just
delete the file and redo.)
What then happens is that when you boot up with the disk tools diskette of
system 7.5/7.01, the system soft sees that filedisk as an unformatted volume
and then you just initialise (yup like the amiga) the vol on the mac side. Hey
presto a mac hd. It works great so far, I have Netscape for the Mac installed
and I have just tried a couple games, and Excel, great with my picasso. There
is little danger in this product except in the anger that may befall us from ye
God Emplant. In fact, I would go as far as to say once its legitimacy is
confirmed (neutral),it could be a product of the year choice.
Kenny Green
The Problem with the rat race is that even if you win you're still a rat.
I've got ShapeShifter to work so well it's almost scary <g>. I've been doing
some comparisons against the Emplant and for most everything I've tried,
ShapeShifter beats the Emplant hands down.
Now for your "Bus Error" problems, from what I have found the reason this
happens is because the Mac you got the ROM image from is not very close to the
Amiga you are using. For example, if you have an Amiga 4000, you would want a
ROM image from a Mac Quadra like the 900. Both support 68040 CPU's, the cache,
etc. I'm not sure what Amiga you are using, but if it is a 3000 or 4000, try
turning off the CPU's cache before you boot up ShapeShifter and see what
happens.
Another thing you might try is to try to get ahold of a 7.1 Disk Tools Disk.
The 7.5 disktools has a SCSI extension installed in it's Extensions drawer that
may cause problems with ShapeShifter.
// John (Warp 4040 & Emplant Quadra 840)
\X/ Mercury@ins.infonet.net
Thanks John. I got it working. I called the BBS number in the help guide, and
the sysop allowed me to take down 2.0e beta, and hey everything works, with
7.5. I am impressed as well. One thing though. I've got stufit.sea on the mac
side and it does not self extract. do you know what's up / what I'm doing
wrong. It keeps on trying to open into a Teachtext doc. Also are you registered
yet ? I am thinking of dedicating a 500 mb partition to it once I'm registered.
The filedisk works great though.
It should be pretty intersting to see if My MAC ORACLE database / Power Objects
actually work on here.
Kenny Green
The Problem with the rat race is that even if you win you're still a rat.
FWIW,
I saw a message on the net yesterday that the newest version of ShapeShifter
(2.0k) is 060 compatible! ShapeShifter comes from Germany. Cyberstorm 060 and
Cybervision are German products. And then of course, there is ESCOM. Things are
getting pretty interesting!
Cheers, Marty
ProActive Images Inc.
"WE BECOME WHAT WE THINK ABOUT ALL DAY LONG" – RW EMERSON
All,
This sounds interesting. I broke into this thread late, so can someone fully
explain what ShapeShifter is? It looks like you talking about a software only
MAC emulator.
Regarding UU's lawsuit. Well if 30% of the code is exactly to same as the
Emplant (bear with me here I've never used an Emplant, or a MAC) I question if
UU has a leg to stand on. Since this is emulation software, I would guess that
there is only one correct way for the program to run. The source code could be
different (depending on the language used to write it, etc) but the compiled
machine code would be very similar (especially if they used the same brand of
compiler) Unless UU can prove that this guy stole UU's source code, they are
S.O.L. They have no more of a right to sue this ShapeShifter guy, then Apple
has a right to sue UU.
Dave
Elite MicroComputers – Flying high on AutoPilot
Yep, I think the Germans are taking over <g>. I hope I don't have to start
speaking German again to order products. I was over there in 1976 for a couple
of years and did pretty well in learning the language, but I've gotten very
rusty since then <g>.
// John (Warp 4040 & Emplant Quadra 840)
\X/ Mercury@ins.infonet.net
Well Kenny, I just booted up ShapeShifter while I was writing this message and
a couple of .SEA files unarchived just fine. So must be something you are doing
wrong at your end. Are you by chance downloading Mac programs using the Amiga
and then transferring them over to SS? If so, then sometimes such transfers can
cause problems. It's usually best to download Mac programs using a Mac terminal
program to maintain the proper file format.
I just sent off the registration this afternoon. Hopefully Christian will get
it in about a week or so and I'll be able to use a real partition instead of
the dog slow virtual drive.
// John (Warp 4040 & Emplant Quadra 840)
\X/ Mercury@ins.infonet.net
I am having the same kind of trouble with ShapeShifter as described in a
previous message. I get a "bus error", a system freeze-up or a system error
when I try to boot from the v7.5 Disk Tools disk. Someone mentioned a later
version of ShapeShifter which did not cause this problem. Could someone upload
the latest demo version of ShapeShifter to CompuServe? I am using an Amiga
3000, OS 3.1 with 10MB of RAM. Many thanks.
-David Cattell P.S. I live in the United States
and am not sure if I want to try to call the BBS mentioned in the docs (in
Germany). If anyone would like to give me some info on how to do this (I am
not sure that I understand the German phone numbers) please feel free to do so.
But I would rather that the latest version of the program be made available on
CIS.
Hi there,
I would upload it if I thought I had permission to do so. The number is easy to
call. Just prefix it with the US intl dial code for Germany (which your
operator can tell you). Once on there, if you page the sysop, he will guide you
through.
Note: some of the original text on the board is German. If you read carefully,
there are refs for English users. If you have no joy then mail me back.